About President Obama speaks on Middle East today.
|May 19th, 2011||#1|
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President Obama speaks on Middle East today. info
He requires the two sides to get started, based upon 1967 borders, and fixed borders with security for a Jewish state. Palestinian state to be de-materialised. Israel to fight its own corner in negotiations, but in general USA and Israel will remain inseperable.
Obama to offer debt relief to Egypt in Mideast speech (Reuters)
English by the grace of God.
Last edited by Del Boy; May 19th, 2011 at 18:17..
|May 21st, 2011||#3|
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The Palestinians were known in the bible as the Philistines.
Here are a couple of maps from Wikipedia that show what a big and important political entity they were -
note tiny area at far left.
and remember, the final political lines were drawn in 1920 by the English and French.
and finally, this is what the Israelis got after they kicked butt in the 1948 war!!!
And "Palestinians" were always a minority in the region. So, what's not to figure out? The Israelis have owned or lived in the area from time beyond memory. They earned their current borders after DEFENDING themselves. And Obuma wants them to give it up? Is he ignorant or what?
|May 22nd, 2011||#4|
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And still those Palestines are there, very much alive and kicking.
Given that teh "West Wall" came into Israeli possesion in the war of -67 theres no chance that Israel will aggree to withdraw to the borderlines of 1967, they just can't give it up, it's impossible!
And given that the map of the Palestine territories looks more like a Chess-board where the only movement from one black square to another is through "white" check-points, the idea of trading land-for-land is dead...
The Palestine territories is littered by settlements, and divided by the safe-roads between those settlements....a Palestinian state is impossible, and I wouldn't be in Obama's shoes when the preassure is applied.
There's a reason why every US president has kept a certain distance to the problems in the Middle-East...
Last edited by 84RFK; May 22nd, 2011 at 00:16.. Reason: ...tasteleif...
|June 6th, 2011||#5|
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It's an interesting idea. I think both sides of this conflict have been completely unreasonable, and what Obama was attempting to do was say "Here's a border, we're using this one, no more fighting about lines."
I'm the bleeding heart liberal your mother warned you about.
|June 10th, 2011||#6|
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As a self-identified conservative I find myself in agreement with the self-identified liberal. The unrest in the "Holy" land has gone on way too long. Palestinian violence met with Israeli violence over and over ad nauseum. Our slavish friendship with Israel has done the US immeasurable harm in the middle east for decades. We backed their play in 1967; we saved their asses in 1972; we gave them nuclear weapons and we have sacrificed--perhaps forever--the goodwill of the Islamic world.
In return the Israeli's have murdered American sailors on a marked vessel in international waters; they have been caught spying on us several times; and--with our support--have repeatedly behaved in the most high-handed manner the world has seen since--dare I say it--the Nazis.
Enough already! It is high time that the US and the world community demanded that the nation of Israel behave itself in a responsible, civilized manner. They have to learn to compromise. The Islamic world for their part have to renounce the goal of Israel's destruction and learn to live with the reality of the prevailing situation, Israel is here to stay. There is room, and necessity for compromise and concession on both sides.
For any deluded Bible thumper that might be here let's have a reality check. The ancient Kingdom of Israel was destroyed by the Romans in AD 70. The Jewish population was either killed in place or dispersed to the four winds by the Romans. There were no Jews in Palestine until the British set up a tiny enclave in furtherance of their own political agenda during WWI over 18 centuries later. If you got your ass kicked off your land 1800 years ago and then came back and asserted your rights of ownership to the people who had lived there for those 1800 years, what kind of response would you expect?
Last edited by RealNavy; June 10th, 2011 at 06:33..
|June 10th, 2011||#7|
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"Isreal should act civilised" Lets keep in mind all of their neighbors would think nothing of finishing the work the Nazis started. The Romans dispersed the Jews, yet the Moslems took what where then Christian lands by conquest & often the same people who lament the attempt by Crusaders to regain what had been taken by Moslems from Christians are the same ones who bash Israel now for taking Moslem land. Seems to be just a continuation of right by conquest. Seems Libs here in the US don't like the US's record/policies (Obama's World Appology Tour as an example) nor @ least some of our Allies. Where Israel is an Ally the Libs seem bent on supporting Moslems as a knee jerk reaction, even to the point of supporting Terrorist groups (@ least retoricly in some Political Forums) & the "Bush was in on 9-11" conspiracy lunacy.
|June 11th, 2011||#8|
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I would however point out that there were some Jews in the region even after the Romans did their thing and well before the British got involved and by all accounts they had few problems with the locals.
The problems really only began in the late 1800s as large scale immigration began.
We are more often treacherous through weakness than through calculation. ~Francois De La Rochefoucauld