Originally Posted by 03USMC

No. The Constitution is written in Honduras to give the the National Congress oversite on the military. You are not taking in to account the fact that both the Supreme Court of Honduras and the National Congress of Honduras the Ministers of Goverment and the Attorney General had already judged that Zelaya's actions were unconstitutional and requested/ordered the military to act.

The Military was ordered not to particapte in the "poll" by the the Attorney General. The Commander of the Armed Forces complied with a legal order and was "fired" by Zelaya despite the fact that his appointment comes from the National Congress. The Military was then able to act in accordance with the wishes of a legally elected congress to remove a president who in the majority opinion and the legal opinion of the attorney general and the Supreme Court was illegaly attempting to circumvent the Constitution.

Painting this as a General overthrowing a legally elected Goverment ala Manuel Norriega/Omar Terrijo or the many others that have done this in Latin American History is off the mark.

But then Zelaya firing of the General is meaningless isnt it? It has no legal authority and no teeth to be enforced. If that is so it takes me back to my earlier point: The fact that I still dont understand why the general simply did say "I am sorry sir, but you lack the legal authority to sack me, only a act from Parlament can remove me from office." And leave it at that. I still fail to see the urgency that he be immediatly removed from office without letting the legal process (impeachment or the expiration of his term) takes it course.

The reason I worry is that I remember what happened in Pakistan. The sequence of events that put Musharaff in power for 10 years are not too different from this situation.

But like I said, the sitting head of government is not a General and for now it doesn't appear any General is in charge of the country officially or unofficially.
I think when Zelaya tried to fire the General, he had already lost his credibility with the rest of the government.
Democracy is one thing, but if a government has a security system that prevents the destruction of the country as an option, is that a bad thing?

Zelaya's action were a mirror image to that of Chavez, which would no doubt destroy the democratic system.
Speaking of which, if the German military rose up against Hitler and overthrew him once it became clear that he was becoming a dictator, would that make them villains or heroes? Consider that. A coup could have prevented the Second World War, could have prevented the wholesale slaughter of people in numbers we can't even imagine.
Although I don't think Zelaya will go about conducting a blood bath of that scale, if he destroyed the democracy of Honduras and implemented Communism that would destroy what's left of the country, would it have been worth it to sit about and do nothing in the name of democracy?

Originally Posted by mmarsh

The fact that I still don't understand why the general simply did say "I am sorry sir, but you lack the legal authority to sack me, only a act from Parliament can remove me from office." And leave it at that. I still fail to see the urgency that he be immediately removed from office without letting the legal process (impeachment or the expiration of his term) takes it course.

He did tell Zelaya that. Zelaya tried to remove him for. He then reported it to the National Congress. That's what got the ball rolling and lead to the ousting. It wasn't the General off on his own hook. It was civilian elected officials that decided Zelaya posed a threat and conducted thru the military his removal and exile.

As 5.56 has said the media in the US and Europe is not reporting the whole story. If you happen to speak Spanish I'd suggest some of the Latin American news reports, they are giving a much broader picture of what happened.

03, I think you should tell us what some of these Spanish language press are saying.

Basically it seems to have shook out like this.

1. Zelaya put a resolution before the national congress that would allow him to form a panel / committee to revise the constitution and get rid of term limits. The resolution was voted down by the congress.

2. Zelaya decided to conduct a poll of the people to see if there was enough popuar support for changing the constitution. Not illegal in and of itself apparently but a grey area. This is not what got him.

3. What got him was the fact that he attempted to use the military for in his word "logistic support" for the poll. Meaning distribution of ballots etc. The otherside says that he planned use the military to actually man the polls. This sets alarm bells in the supreme court, congress, and the military.

4. Zelaya orders Gen. Romeo Vasquez to help conduct the poll. Vasquez contacts the attorney general and the congressional committee to verify the legality of the order.

5. Upon consultation with the attorney general and congress Vasquez refuses to conduct the poll. Vasquez fired.

6. Zelaya is informed by the attorney general that his poll does not meet constitutional or legal requistes and advised that conducting the poll will be illegal.

7. Zelaya says he will conduct the poll despite warnings from congress and the attorney general. Congress requests Zelaya resign. Zelaya refuses.

8. Zeleya is removed from office by a military force and exiled to Costa Rica. This action is approved by congress and the attorney general and conducted at their request. Zelaya advised return to the country will result in treason charges.

9. First hue and cry from Chavez sets off the rest of the condemnation.

10. Roberto Michaletto appointed president until the end of the current term by congress. Democratic elections to be conducted in November 2009.


It's not a military coup it's the removal of a president by legally elected and appointed officals, for his testing the limits he could go and attempting to circumvent his constitutional powers.

I don't think it is a military coup.
No General is in charge of the government in any capacity.

And Mmarsh, Zelaya fired the General for refusing to follow an illegal order. You cannot be punished legally for refusing to follow an illegal order.

Here's the thing. The US and European media have painted this a typical Latin American Coup. It's also being painted that way on Venezuelan, Ecuadorian, and Nicaruaguan media as well as Bolivan. Other less effected (on the political side) countries are giving this a much more balanced view, Mexico, Columbia, Peru and Chile and the Dominican programs and articles I've seen are much more balanced.

The reason is two fold in IMHO. US & European outlets are bound by a sensationalism for one and penchant for siding with theUN and (in the case of the US) Obama. And they have no need to investigate because in the long and short it doesn't matter. They won't tell you that the "Coup" was conducted under the command of high ranking officers and a small security detachment, it's better far better for them to conjure up images of a storming bloody raid on the Presidental Palace. They won't tell you the why's because it doesn't fit the agenda.

The others in Latin America .....well their just scared.

Depending on what happens in November, the rest of the world may owe Honduras a huge apology.

I really respect the guts that that the Honduran National Congress and Ministery of Justice displayed and are currently displaying in the face of all this. They defended their country IMHO and are taken it on the chin.

Definitely.
They did the right thing.