Originally Posted by 03USMC

Yes. But the powers that be feel I shouldn't carry, so I can't. Used to carry a North American Arms mini revolver in .22 LR in my shirt pocket as an "Oh chit" gun. Got caught. Don't carry it anymore.

A firearm dealer and his brother known to me was attacked at home by half a dozen thugs, the dealer brought out a NAA in 22 Magnum hitting one in the elbow, while the brother brought out a 45 nailing another scum bag putting him down.

Needless to say, the surviving crims did a runner.

My NAA now resides on a shelf just inside my front door. Just in case. I've got no problem depending on it, especially at that range. IMHO it's a fine "get off me gun" while I fight my way to a larger one.

Originally Posted by 03USMC

My NAA now resides on a shelf just inside my front door. Just in case. I've got no problem depending on it, especially at that range. IMHO it's a fine "get off me gun" while I fight my way to a larger one.

I wish we had the same relaxed laws as you guys, South Africa would become a safer place overnight. If anyone left a firearm or even a round of ammunition on a shelf and not under your direct control, you'd be arrested, jailed and all of your guns confiscated by the police. Its insane, yet as predicted crime is going through the roof.

Purely as a matter of interest for the cops on the forum, the following was on the front page of our local newspaper regarding crime clear up rates in different area's for the month of January:-


Strand 69 Murder and violent crime 735 Total crime. 3.5% Successful prosecutions
Somerset West 51 Murder and violent crime 480 Total crime. 7% Successful prosecutions
Lwandle 26 Murder and violent crime 307 Total crime 0.94% Successful prosecutions
Gordons Bay 10 Murder and violent crime 220 Total crime 4% Successful prosecutions

Thats an average of 3.86% prosecution rate, well below the national average of 6%.

Yep, gun laws work

A 3.86% prosecution average for murder and violent crime, its not the guns that are the problem, its your legal system that sucks.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

A 3.86% prosecution average for murder and violent crime, its not the guns that are the problem, its your legal system that sucks.

The legal system sucks(they give criminals rights that the law-abiding don't have), the police are in the main useless and under funded, over 1/3rd are illiterate (I'm not kidding), yet the government are disarming the law-abiding. Guns in the right hands arent the problem, it the guns in the hands of criminals that are, guns that criminals get from corrupt cops and military. One cop was found to be renting out his issue firearm, and guess what? He's still a cop and not in jail where he belongs.

I'd be up in arms over that one!

Originally Posted by BritinAfrica

The legal system sucks(they give criminals rights that the law-abiding don't have), the police are in the main useless and under funded, over 1/3rd are illiterate (I'm not kidding), yet the government are disarming the law-abiding. Guns in the right hands arent the problem, it the guns in the hands of criminals that are, guns that criminals get from corrupt cops and military. One cop was found to be renting out his issue firearm, and guess what? He's still a cop and not in jail where he belongs.

Well therein lies your problem. It doesn't matter of South Africa has the more restrictive gun laws or the most liberal, until you address your lack of serious law-enforcement problem you are going to have problems with crime. Changing your gun laws one or the other wont change this.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

Well therein lies your problem. It doesn't matter of South Africa has the more restrictive gun laws or the most liberal, until you address your lack of serious law-enforcement problem you are going to have problems with crime. Changing your gun laws one or the other wont change this.

Seems to me that would be true no matter what. We (the USA) don't need to make stricter gun laws, either, IMHO.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

Well therein lies your problem. It doesn't matter of South Africa has the more restrictive gun laws or the most liberal, until you address your lack of serious law-enforcement problem you are going to have problems with crime. Changing your gun laws one or the other wont change this.

Not correct.

Before this new law was introduced in 2004 crime was falling as licences for self defence were fairly easy to get.

Since 2004 and restrictive laws were out in place forcing people to hand in firearms to the police (over 2000 of which have been sold by police to criminals) and licences are getting harder and harder to get, crime has increased. Thats fact.

The South African Police have stated publically that its not their job to provide protection to the population against criminals. Our protection is in our hands, not the police, not the government. Thats also fact.

Criminals are fully aware that the law-abiding are being disarmed, thereby making their task of murder, rape and robbery much easier.

Originally Posted by AB_Shorts_Momma

I'd be up in arms over that one!

We are momma, we can kick and scream as much as we like, it falls on deaf ears.

In Parliament not long ago, the Minister for Safety and Security stated and I quote, "If you dont like the crime in South Africa, leave." unquote. Just about says it all.

Another thing many people people in the west don't realise, South Africa isnt a first world country with a first world mindset, its a typical third world African country with a third world mindset. Therefore, Western reasoning doesnt work in South Africa.

Originally Posted by BritinAfrica

We are momma, we can kick and scream as much as we like, it falls on deaf ears.

In Parliament not long ago, the Minister for Safety and Security stated and I quote, "If you dont like the crime in South Africa, leave." unquote. Just about says it all.

Another thing many people people in the west don't realise, South Africa isnt a first world country with a first world mindset, its a typical third world African country with a third world mindset. Therefore, Western reasoning doesnt work in South Africa.

What made you choose to live there?