There's a lot of programmes about the D-Day landings at the moment, so I thought about asking an related question.

I recall the Russians didn't attack in the East (Bagration or the Belorussian Offensive) for several weeks after the Normandy landings allowing German divisions to be drawn West away from the Eastern front. Ignoring politics was this the optimum solution for the Allies?

Consider that the Allies attacked simultaneously and the experienced German Eastern divisions weren't available for Normandy in June 1944. Would the Western allies have broken out of the bocage earlier, and made it over the Rhine by August before the weather closed in, perhaps ending the war before 1944 was out?

If so did the Western allies have to pay a debt of prolonging the war for Stalin's benefit?

There is a good documentary about the expectations of the main three "allies" during WWII. It is called When Lions Roared. Russia (Stalin) felt the US and Britain were holding back on opening a second front.

The documentary is long but very good.

I don't think so Perseus.

One of the main reasons for the timing of Bagration, the most decisive Soviet victory in the East, was symbolic, i.e. Bagration was launched on 22 June 1944, exactly 3 years after the Germans had launched Barbarossa. Stalin was quick to recognise the significance of dates and how it could aid morale and assist in propoganda. By launching Bagration on that date he was more or less saying; this is where the invasion of Germany begins.

IIRC, the Western Allies had logistical problems when they ploughed through France and the Low Countries. Considering also that the Soviets were generally in a rush to get to Berlin (for several reasons) I don't think there was any orchestrated delays by Stalin nor could the Western Allies have reached Berlin in 1944 in any case.

Strange, I've always assumed Stalin waited to take advantage of the situation. It seems a poor show that the Eastern and Western allies couldn't cooperate in principle.

With regard to logistics, if the breakout was a month earlier, wouldn't the ports have been captured a month earlier, bringing everything forward a month? Hence the Rhine could have been crossed before the Autumn clouds closed in negating the air power advantage, and once the Ruhr was surrounded presumably Germany couldn't have continued for more than a few more months.

Originally Posted by perseus

Strange, I've always assumed Stalin waited to take advantage of the situation. It seems a poor show that the Eastern and Western allies couldn't cooperate in principle.

The allies did cooperate with each other. By D-Day the allies new it was a matter of time before Victory was achieved. Cooperation of the allies was not just about victory over Germany, they were also positioning themselves for after the victory was achieved. Each had their own political agenda.

The western allies new that at the end of the war Stalin was not just going to withdraw his armies to Russia.

I mean agree on a workable strategy for launching a successful two front assault on Germany. Effectively it seems that all they did was to agree a piecemeal two front assault sometime in 1944 without any coordination whatsoever. It seems to me the way things worked out was that Normandy effectively diverted forces away from the East and the Russians were the main beneficiaries.

Without a successful breakout of the beachheads, all of mainland Europe may have been enveloped by an Iron Curtain of Communism. Perhaps a stalemate in Normandy is what Stalin really hoped for.

There had been the Yalta Conference where Stalin had been briefed on what was going to happen, and I would expect that his Generals would have taken an advantage of the Germans being attacked on three fronts. Now there Germans were involved in a bloody conflict in Italy, and Russia and then had Normandy thrust upon them. The Germans did move troops out of the Russian front and sent them to France so the Russian did attack an drove down towards Rummania to get at the oilfields.

Perhaps a simultaneous assault was difficult to organise logistically since the date for Overlord was variable. However, this must have been restricted within a few days due to the tides.

A precise coordination was probably not even necessary.
Seriously, think about it.

Originally Posted by perseus

Without a successful breakout of the beachheads, all of mainland Europe may have been enveloped by an Iron Curtain of Communism. Perhaps a stalemate in Normandy is what Stalin really hoped for.

Bingo Perseus, this would have been a near dream scenario for Stalin.