Operation Iraqi Freedom... - Page 2




 
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March 3rd, 2004  
Redneck
 
 
I hear you there, master_gunner. Unfortunately I don't think there is much we can do to repair the Shiite/Sunni relationship, but hopefully men more intelligent than myself can come up with something.
March 3rd, 2004  
GuyontheRight
 
They honestly need their own countries...
March 3rd, 2004  
RnderSafe
 
 
There are a lot more problems between the population than just Sunni vs Shi'ite. There is hardly any sense of "Iraqi" nationalisim. Political, tribal, religious, cultural differences are abound and stand before a nationalistic responsibility of being an Iraqi. These groups no longer have the threat of total annihaltion under the Ba'ath party to keep them from conflict.

Watch the Kurds, closely. The caldron is bubbling.
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March 3rd, 2004  
RnderSafe
 
 
Quote:
They honestly need their own countries...
Iraq is a bit like Yugoslavia was. It was an artificially created state, with the disparate groups concentrated in specific areas. After Yugoslavia reformed, we had to establish separate areas for the groups, and relocate those who would move or protect them if they chose not to. The problem is that the Sunnis have the industrial and urban areas, while the Kurds and Shiites occupy the areas with most of the oil.

If the economic picture were better and there was less animosity, perhaps a confederation of semi-autonomous states, like the U.S. would be a viable option.

Also, area political forces (i.e., Iran, Syria, etc.) do not want this to succeed. And are willing to offer at least some support to the insurgency so as to keep open the possibility of the US running home in defeat. There are many "visitors" at play within Iraq as well as your rivaling hometown factions.
March 3rd, 2004  
diplomatic_means
 
I have the best idea make the tribes split up into different geographic regions and then carve up the country accordingly between whichever countries we feel can do a good job at governing that tribe. Woohoo.
March 3rd, 2004  
GuyontheRight
 
Also, area political forces (i.e., Iran, Syria, etc.) do not want this to succeed. And are willing to offer at least some support to the insurgency so as to keep open the possibility of the US running home in defeat. There are many "visitors" at play within Iraq as well as your rivaling hometown factions.

Yea, Im aware, but those same countries also dont want Isreal as a country, but that aint changin. The reality is that the British failed to take into account the cultural diffrences of the Kurds, Sunni, and Shiite, and now where paying the price for it.
March 4th, 2004  
diplomatic_means
 
What doe this have to do with the British?
March 4th, 2004  
GuyontheRight
 
They were the ones who drew up the modern country of Iraq, that is it's borders. They did it soely based on geography, so thats why we have the culture clashes we do in iraq.
March 5th, 2004  
diplomatic_means
 
Do you really think America would have drawn it up much differently? And when was it redrawn?
March 5th, 2004  
RnderSafe
 
 
Quote:
The reality is that the British failed to take into account the cultural diffrences of the Kurds, Sunni, and Shiite, and now where paying the price for it.
It doesn't really matter what the British did, we could sit and discuss how half of the ME's exacerbated problems are because of the Brits, France, et al, but it won't solve anything relating to this issue. What matters is sorting the mess out .. and it's impractical to think we can assimilate these people into supporting and believing in our (western) idea of democracy. The Kurds are getting impatient, and if anything big is going to happen (read succession) it's going to happen in the North. At least, this is what I saw while I was over there.

Quote:
Do you really think America would have drawn it up much differently?
As to the history of Iraq, and what the US would have done .. the US did have a hand in dictating what was to become of Iraq. France and Britain wanted to divvy the provinces and absorb them into their Empires. The Arabs wanted independence so the US pressured them into a compromise. The Brits were given Iraq, and France Syria and Lebanon under the League of Nations supervision. Of course, if the Ottoman Empire wouldn't have declared jihad to begin with .. it's likely they would have lasted another 100 years .. but, eh.

Quote:
And when was it redrawn?
1919