I guess we got a new pope recently, I was hoping he'd be a young guy but I guess not. Why you ask was I hoping he would be a young guy?, you'll find out as you read. Whether you believe it or not, it's still pretty interesting.

Some of you may have heard of the prophecies of St. Malachy (11th Century), he had wrote down a list of all the popes from his day forward, 112 in all. He included a brief phrase on each pope which happened to match certain characteristics of that pope exactly. And according to him there are only two popes left.

Here are some examples of his Papal Prophecies, let's go back as far as five popes to show you what I mean. I'll give the breif description about them which were written some 900 years before they reigned, the names of the popes, after which is the description that you may find uncannilly accurate.

"Pastor en Nauta" - Pastor and mariner = JOHN XXIII. 1958 - 1963

He is consider one of the most beloved popes in history, he was close to the people like a pastor to his flock.

Before he was elected pope he was the Patriarch of Venice, a city well known for its links to the sea and sailors (a maratime city).

When he convoked the Ecumenical Council in 1962, John chose two symbols for the council badge-a cross and a ship.

"Flos Florum"- Flower of Flowers = PAUL VI. 1963-1978

His coat of arms had three iris blossoms.

"De Medietate Lanae" Of the Half Moon or From the Half Moon = JOHN PAUL I. 1978-1978

He became pope on August 26, 1978, when the moon was exactly half full.

He was born in the diocese of Belluno, translated beautiful moon.

His birth name was Albino Luciani, translated white light, which is the type of light given by the moon.

This pope reigned for only 33 days, this could also signify half-moon since work was not even completed, he also died a few days after a lunar eclipse

"De Labore Solis" Of the Solar Eclipse, or From the Toil of the Sun = JOHN PAUL II. 1978-2005

He was a native of Krakow Poland, the city where Copernicus strived for years to prove his (then heretical) theory of how the earth revolved aroun the sun.

He was born on May 18, 1920. On that date there was a near total eclipse of the sun over Europe.

On the day of his burial a solar eclipse could be seen over North and South America.

(Europe, N. & S. America are also where most Catholic Christians reside, if this has any bearing to the eclipeses)

" Gloria Olivae," or Glory of the Olive = Pope Benedict XVI. 2005-Present

This prophecy has already been partially if not fully fullfilled.

The new pope took the name Benedict, from St. Benedict. The order dedicated to St. Benedict is The Benedictine Order, is also know as the Olivetans... hence the Glory of the Olive.

There maybe other stuff that can can happen that relates to this, that are associated with the olives, so we'll see.

...And the last pope, according to St. Malachy...

"Petrus Romanus" or Peter the Roman = ???

The fate that awaits Peter the Roman is not so good.

According to St. Malachy and as well as other corresponding reliable prophecies which line up with what St. Malachy is saying, the fate that awaits him is this...

Peter the Roman reigns through many tribulations.

Rome (the Vatican) is invaded, destroyed and burned to the ground.

Peter is forced out of Rome and either dies in exile or in captivity.

At least one pope has a similar vision that went along the lines of what Malachy wrote;
In 1909, while granting an audience, pope Pius X leaned back and closed his eyes. Suddenly he "awoke" and cried out: "What I see is terrifying. Will it be myself? Will it be my successor? What is certain is that the pope will quit Rome, and in leaving the Vatican, he will have to walk over the dead bodies of his priests."

Now you know why I was hoping this pope would be a young guy, turns out he's not. So if this is all true I hope the this pope lives to be a hundred, a hundred and twenty would be nice.

"De Medietate Lanae" Of the Half Moon or From the Half Moon = JOHN PAUL I. 1978-1978

He became pope on August 26, 1978, when the moon was exactly half full.

He was born in the diocese of Belluno, translated beautiful moon.

His birth name was Albino Luciani, translated white light, which is the type of light given by the moon.

This pope reigned for only 33 days, this could also signify half-moon since work was not even completed, he also died a few days after a lunar eclipse

Another one you could add is that with 33 days he reigned one month or only one moon cycle.

Yes, I've heard this one before. I haven't checked them all myself, but from what I've heard. St. Malachy got them all right for all this time.

Of course, it could mean that this is the end of the line for Popes under this form of Roman Cathalocism. It may be that the church is so radically changed that they give the new leader another name than "Pope". Who knows?

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. If it's going to happen it's beyond my powers and it could also be that Malachy was misinterpreted or even they lost his writtings on the next few hundred years of Popes.

At least one pope has a similar vision that went along the lines of what Malachy wrote;
In 1909, while granting an audience, pope Pius X leaned back and closed his eyes. Suddenly he "awoke" and cried out: "What I see is terrifying. Will it be myself? Will it be my successor? What is certain is that the pope will quit Rome, and in leaving the Vatican, he will have to walk over the dead bodies of his priests."

Now you know why I was hoping this pope would be a young guy, turns out he's not. So if this is all true I hope the this pope lives to be a hundred, a hundred and twenty would be nice.

Umm so you are serious about this Malachy character?

Sorry but all that springs to mind is a saying that my grandparents generation used a lot and that is "what a load of old malachy".

However I did stumble apon this:

The 2nd to last pope is identified by Malachy as "Gloria Olivae" - "glory of the olive". (Some prophets believe this pope will take Leo XVI for his name and will bring peace between Israelis and Arabs) St Malachy predicts that Pope John Paul II's successor will be an active peace-making member of the religious hierarchy. But he will die in 2008 with his work unfinished and the next pope - called Peter of Rome ("Peterus Romanus") - will rule until the Apocalypse in 2020.

So as with most prophecy's there are several interpretations out there which kind of puts an element of doubt into the process.

Besides arent we supposed to be wiped out in 2006 in the Bible code which I suspect has a bit better shot at being correct than the Japanese Nostradamus interpreter who had the world ending in July 1999 and hell if that fails heres a bunch of other events that are meant wipe us out.

http://www.weird-websites.com/justweird/endofworld.htm

Wikipedia has some good information on this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes
The following is just a small part of the article there.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Pope Pius X (Ignis ardens)
The motto means "ardent" or "burning fire". The pope was known for his great personal piety and strong devotion to the church, advocating reforms such as the codification of Canon law, daily communion and the Gregorian chant in the Catholic liturgy.

Pope Benedict XV (Religio depopulata)
The motto means "religion laid waste". During Pope Benedict XV's reign, two significant events occurred: World War I, which killed 15 million people in Europe, and the October Revolution in Russia, which established the atheist Soviet Union.


Pope Pius XI (Fides intrepida)
The motto means "intrepid faith". This pope released the encyclical Mit Brennender Sorge which condemned Nazi racism and also signed agreements with fascist Italy which, among other things, gave the Vatican sovereignty, established the pope as head of state, and added 700 million Lire to the church coffers.


Pope Pius XII (Pastor angelicus)
The motto means "an angelic shepherd". This pope was known to be very mystical, and it was believed that he received visions. Whenever he telephoned someone the recipient would always kneel. His writings added greatly to understanding of Catholic beliefs and church doctrine.


Pope John XXIII (Pastor et Nauta)
Prior to his election he was patriarch of Venice, which is a maritime city, famous for is waterways and gondolas.

According Peter Bander in The Prophecies of Malachy (TAN Books and Publisher, 1969) during the conclave which was to elect John XXIII, a certain Cardinal from the United States, (Cardinal Spellman of New York) evidently having taken Malachy's forecast that the next pope would be "pastor and mariner" literally, rented a boat, filled it with sheep and sailed up and down the Tiber.

The anti-pope Pius XIII of the true Catholic Church has also claimed to be Pastor et Nauta, as their group believes that his last valid predecessor was Pius XII. He has used justifications including his residence in the United States, which is across the Atlantic Ocean from Rome.


Pope Paul VI (Flos florum)
Pope Paul VI, who reigned from 1963 - 1978, is described in the prophecies as Flos florum (flower of flowers). His personal arms bore three fleurs-de-lis, the well-used symbol in flags and heraldry used to represent the French monarchy. "Fleurs-de-lis" literally means "flower of lily". However, this disregards all the other papal arms that had flowers on them as well.


Pope John Paul I (De medietate Lunae)
De medietate Lunae translates to "of the half-moon". It could also be interpreted as de media aetate lunae, meaning of the average age of the moon. Albino Luciani, who later became Pope John Paul I, was born in Canale d'Ogardo, diocese of Belluno (beautiful moon). He was elected on 26 August 1978, the day after the moon reached its last quarter, and reigned for 33 days, approximately five days longer than a lunar cycle. He died the day before the new moon. However, a much simpler explanation might be that he was born on the day of the half moon: on 17 October 1912, the moon was in its first quarter. Others point to the translation of his name before becoming pope, Albino Luciani, or "white light".


Pope John Paul II (De labore Solis)
The prophetic motto corresponding to Pope John Paul II is De labore Solis, which literally means "Of the labour of the sun", but "labores solis" also means solar eclipse (http://www.sunsite.ubc.ca/LatinDicti...perText/l.html). Karol Wojtyla, who later became Pope John Paul II was born on 18 May 1920 during a partial solar eclipse over the Indian Ocean, and buried on 8 April 2005, the day of a rare "hybrid" eclipse (http://www.astronomy.com/default.aspx?c=a&id=3044) over the south-western Pacific and South America. He might also be seen to be the fruit of the intercession of the Woman Clothed with the Sun labouring in Revelation 12 (because of his devotion to the Virgin Mary).

It has also been suggested that the associated Latin phrase could also be a cryptic term for de borealis sol, of the northern sun, being a luminary coming from Poland to the north; this would be very ungrammatical Latin, however. It has also so happened that an abnormally high number of sunspots have been recorded throughout all the many years of his pontificate. Another interpretation points simply to the sun rising in the east and his being the first Pope from Eastern Europe. Yet another is that he was the first Pope to go around the world, as the Sun does. A further theory is that the combination of labore and solis cryptically refers to "the sun of the workers", i.e., the star of communism, with John Paul being the only pope to have spent much of his life under a communist regime.

Pope Benedict XVI (Gloria Olivae)
Gloria Olivae, glory of the olive, is the next phrase following De labore Solis. Prior to the papal conclave, this motto led to speculation that the next pontiff would be from the Order of Saint Benedict, whose symbols include the olive branch. Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, selected in April 2005, is not a Benedictine, but did pick Benedict XVI as his regnal name, which might be regarded as a fulfillment of this prophecy.

It must be noted that, probably thanks to the Prophecy, the betting site PaddyPower (http://www.paddypower.com) accurately predicted that Benedict would have the highest odds of being the future papal name.

Yet there can also be a different meaning. Pope Benedict XVI had his birthday on 16 April and on that day is celebrated the feast of Saint Benedict Joseph Labre (26 March 1748 - 16 April 1783), also known as the Holy Pilgrim. His first name was already Joseph and together with Benedict, which he has now assumed, his Christian namesake is now complete. Moreover, the Order of St Benedict is also known as that of the Olivetans.

Yet another possible interpretation might be that, like his predecessor - who spoke of the Church needing to 'breathe with both lungs' again - Pope Benedict XVI has a special desire to reunite the eastern orthodox churches, separated since 1054, with the Roman Church. The olive can of course be taken as a symbol of Greece, and hence the Greek Orthodox Church (and - by extension - the Russian Orthodox Church which grew out of it). During John Paul II's funeral Mass, with a large delegation of bishops from the Greek and Russian Orthodox churches present, Cardinal Ratzinger, the celebrant, in the portion of the Eucharistic Prayer where the union of the Church with its bishops, priests and faithful is invoked, inserted a special mention of the Orthodox bishops present. This was an extraordinary innovation, considering Rome regards these bishops as schismatic. If indeed it turns out that reunion with the 'olive' churches is achieved during Benedict's pontificate (the last time, if only briefly, was at the Council of Florence, the seventeenth Ecumenical Council, 1438-1445), it would truly be a glorious achievement worthy of St Malachy's phrase, 'Gloria Olivae'.

Another interpretation was that Gloria Olivae would promote world peace, as symbolised by the olive branch. In a general audience on 27 April 2005, Benedict XVI explained that he chose his regnal name as a link to Benedict XV, Religio depopulata, and that "In his footsteps I place my ministry, in the service of reconciliation and harmony between peoples, profoundly convinced that the great good of peace is above all a gift of God, a fragile and precious gift to be invoked, safeguarded and constructed, day after day and with everyone's contribution".

There had already been, before the election of the pope, a concomitance in two unrelated events occurring on the opening date of the 2005 Conclave. First, a Turkish presidential candidate won overnight the northern Cyprus elections favouring re-unification peace talks of the two sectors; the flag of Cyprus has two inter-locking olive branches in it. Secondly, Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi was forced to resign as a result of pressure from the leftist opposition called l'Ulivo.

Clemente Domínguez y Gómez, the late self-proclaimed Pope of the Palmarian Catholic Church also used to claim that he was the glory of the olive.


Petrus Romanus -- Peter II
The longest and final motto reads, "In persecutione extrema S.R.E. sedebit Petrus Romanus, qui pascet oues in multis tribulationibus: quibus transactis ciuitas septicollis diruetur, & Iudex tremêdus iudicabit populum suum. Finis." (During the final persecution, the seat of the Holy Roman Church will be occupied by Peter the Roman, who will feed the sheep in many tribulations, after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed, and the terrible Judge will judge his people. The End.) According to some sources, this was not a part of the original prophecy but was added in the early 19th Century by a publisher.

Two men claiming to be Pope Peter II have emerged in recent years, probably inspired by this motto.

There are several interpretations regarding the last Popes listed by St. Malachy taken by those who believe the prophecies:

Regarding whether additional Popes, not listed by St. Malachy occur between Gloria Olivae and Petrus Romanus the following differing views are held:
Gloria Olivae is immediately followed by Petrus Romanus.
Because no number is assigned to Petrus Romanus, he and Gloria Olivae might be one and the same pope.
Because no number is assigned to Petrus Romanus, any number of popes could intervene between these two popes.
Regarding whether the Papacy ends with Petrus Romanus, the following differing views are held:
Petrus Romanus will be the final Pope. The end of his papacy will mark either the end of the papacy, the end of the Roman Catholic Church, and/or the end of this world (Apocalypse | End of the world (religion) | Armageddon | Eschatology).
There will be additional Popes following Petrus Romanus, about which Malachy did not write. There is also the possibility that these additional popes might be considered antipopes, which could justify their omission in St. Malachy's eyes.

Originally Posted by MontyB

Umm so you are serious about this Malachy character?

Sorry but all that springs to mind is a saying that my grandparents generation used a lot and that is "what a load of old malachy".

Its malarchy not malachy.

Since you like to insult me by calling what I beleive in "a load of malarchy", you need to provide proof. The fact that you are biased towards this does not constitute proof.

The evidence here stands on it own merit.

However I did stumble apon this:

So as with most prophecy's there are several interpretations out there which kind of puts an element of doubt into the process.

This is simply other peoples interpretation of Malachy prophecy, NOT what Mal said himself, they simply interpreted wrong (they maybe right later). Once its fullfilled then all is moot. Peoples different or wrong interpretation of Mal's prophecies doesn't negate it in any way.

The fact the the latest prophecy was fullfilled in a way that no one expected gives even more credibility to Malachy.

Besides arent we supposed to be wiped out in 2006 in the Bible code which I suspect has a bit better shot at being correct than the Japanese Nostradamus interpreter who had the world ending in July 1999 and h**l if that fails heres a bunch of other events that are meant wipe us out.

http://www.weird-websites.com/justweird/endofworld.htm

Anyone can make prophecies, it doesn't mean they will come true.

There are tons of kooks out there, but once in a while there is one who isn't. St. Malachy prophecies have come true on a consistent basis over a period of time.

You can deny it or call this stuff malarchy but the proof is right here.

I'm an evangelical chrishtan and we're taught to not believe the Catoholics(no offense anyone). But this guy was right all the time! Now thats a strange coinceidence, or not a coincedince at all.

Its malarchy not malachy.

Since you like to insult me by calling what I beleive in "a load of malarchy", you need to provide proof. The fact that you are biased towards this does not constitute proof.

The evidence here stands on it own merit.

While it is true I dont believe in prophecies I dont believe there was any intentional insult in there as I stand by the statement that his name bears a striking similarity to that of the statement (spelling errors aside) "what a load of old malarchy" which here is translated here into meaning "you are pulling my leg".
Now I am assuming that statement has an origin then prophecies IF proven to be false would be a very early example and possible origin for my statement.

The argument against:
The most common school of thought against these prophecies is that they are a 16th century Jesuit hoax as found and explained at this website
http://ignatiusinsight.com/features2...roph_apr05.asp


Now before this degenerates into a full blown religious argument, I believe that people have a right to believe and practice whatever religion they like as long as they dont try and force them on others and that all religions are equal because of that. However I am not a religious person I am at best an agnostic bordering on atheism that is I dont discount the possibility of a god but I lean toward the probability that there isnt one so I will always argue from a purely mathematical point of view and discount faith.


So with that lets try and discuss this without the assumed insults, you have given us the prophecies I have replied with one of numerous (basic web search) bits of data that says they are a 16th century hoax now you get to disprove my data.

Originally Posted by MontyB

While it is true I dont believe in prophecies I dont believe there was any intentional insult in there as I stand by the statement that his name bears a striking similarity to that of the statement (spelling errors aside) "what a load of old malarchy" which here is translated here into meaning "you are pulling my leg".
Now I am assuming that statement has an origin then prophecies IF proven to be false would be a very early example and possible origin for my statement.

[qoute]The argument against:
The most common school of thought against these prophecies is that they are a 16th century Jesuit hoax as found and explained at this website
http://ignatiusinsight.com/features2...roph_apr05.asp


Now before this degenerates into a full blown religious argument, I believe that people have a right to believe and practice whatever religion they like as long as they dont try and force them on others and that all religions are equal because of that. However I am not a religious person I am at best an agnostic bordering on atheism that is I dont discount the possibility of a god but I lean toward the probability that there isnt one so I will always argue from a purely mathematical point of view and discount faith.


So with that lets try and discuss this without the assumed insults, you have given us the prophecies I have replied with one of numerous (basic web search) bits of data that says they are a 16th century hoax now you get to disprove my data.

Like I said before the evidence stands on its own merit.

It has already proven itself regardless of who wrote it, by fullfilling what was written after it was revealed (after the 16th century), including events that are beyond human interferance.

If it is a hoax, then the hoax itself has predicted the coming popes accurately, as seen in the examples I gave before. That's pretty darn good for a hoax.

Besides the link you provided does not give a very strong argument at all. The author is saying its a hoax but other than providing any real data it doesn't show anything significant. She was saying it was only accurate before the cut off, but thats simply not the case, as the evidence has showed. Besides the whole article had little to do with Malachy at all.

The evidence still stands, the predictions have been accuratly fullfilled including this last one.

Seeing the evidence for what it is, regardless of bias, is the basis for any thruthful conclusion. It may not be inside the box of any physical science, but that does not mean its not true.

Originally Posted by gladius

I guess we got a new pope recently, I was hoping he'd be a young guy but I guess not. Why you ask was I hoping he would be a young guy?, you'll find out as you read. Whether you believe it or not, it's still pretty interesting.

Some of you may have heard of the prophecies of St. Malachy (11th Century), he had wrote down a list of all the popes from his day forward, 112 in all. He included a brief phrase on each pope which happened to match certain characteristics of that pope exactly. And according to him there are only two popes left.

Here are some examples of his Papal Prophecies, let's go back as far as five popes to show you what I mean. I'll give the breif description about them which were written some 900 years before they reigned, the names of the popes, after which is the description that you may find uncannilly accurate.

"Pastor en Nauta" - Pastor and mariner = JOHN XXIII. 1958 - 1963

He is consider one of the most beloved popes in history, he was close to the people like a pastor to his flock.

Before he was elected pope he was the Patriarch of Venice, a city well known for its links to the sea and sailors (a maratime city).

When he convoked the Ecumenical Council in 1962, John chose two symbols for the council badge-a cross and a ship.

"Flos Florum"- Flower of Flowers = PAUL VI. 1963-1978

His coat of arms had three iris blossoms.

"De Medietate Lanae" Of the Half Moon or From the Half Moon = JOHN PAUL I. 1978-1978

He became pope on August 26, 1978, when the moon was exactly half full.

He was born in the diocese of Belluno, translated beautiful moon.

His birth name was Albino Luciani, translated white light, which is the type of light given by the moon.

This pope reigned for only 33 days, this could also signify half-moon since work was not even completed, he also died a few days after a lunar eclipse

"De Labore Solis" Of the Solar Eclipse, or From the Toil of the Sun = JOHN PAUL II. 1978-2005

He was a native of Krakow Poland, the city where Copernicus strived for years to prove his (then heretical) theory of how the earth revolved aroun the sun.

He was born on May 18, 1920. On that date there was a near total eclipse of the sun over Europe.

On the day of his burial a solar eclipse could be seen over North and South America.

(Europe, N. & S. America are also where most Catholic Christians reside, if this has any bearing to the eclipeses)

" Gloria Olivae," or Glory of the Olive = Pope Benedict XVI. 2005-Present

This prophecy has already been partially if not fully fullfilled.

The new pope took the name Benedict, from St. Benedict. The order dedicated to St. Benedict is The Benedictine Order, is also know as the Olivetans... hence the Glory of the Olive.

There maybe other stuff that can can happen that relates to this, that are associated with the olives, so we'll see.

...And the last pope, according to St. Malachy...

"Petrus Romanus" or Peter the Roman = ???

The fate that awaits Peter the Roman is not so good.

According to St. Malachy and as well as other corresponding reliable prophecies which line up with what St. Malachy is saying, the fate that awaits him is this...

Peter the Roman reigns through many tribulations.

Rome (the Vatican) is invaded, destroyed and burned to the ground.

Peter is forced out of Rome and either dies in exile or in captivity.

At least one pope has a similar vision that went along the lines of what Malachy wrote;
In 1909, while granting an audience, pope Pius X leaned back and closed his eyes. Suddenly he "awoke" and cried out: "What I see is terrifying. Will it be myself? Will it be my successor? What is certain is that the pope will quit Rome, and in leaving the Vatican, he will have to walk over the dead bodies of his priests."

Now you know why I was hoping this pope would be a young guy, turns out he's not. So if this is all true I hope the this pope lives to be a hundred, a hundred and twenty would be nice.

I think this prophecies are too general to give them credit. You could find similarities with this phrases on everybody.

- Pastor and mariner: he loved sailing

- Flower of flowers: he had a big garden

- From the half moon: he borned,appointed or dead in a half moon night.

- Toil of the sun:....................................

- Glory of the olive: he always had bread with olive oil for breakfast.

- Peter the roman: it could mean so many things...

Originally Posted by staurofilakes

I think this prophecies are too general to give them credit. You could find similarities with this phrases on everybody.

- Pastor and mariner: he loved sailing

- Flower of flowers: he had a big garden

- From the half moon: he borned,appointed or dead in a half moon night.

- Toil of the sun:....................................

- Glory of the olive: he always had bread with olive oil for breakfast.

- Peter the roman: it could mean so many things...

This is pretty much the most common argument against these prophecies, the anti-prophecy theory is that the book was written in the 1600s because this is when it surfaced and they are extremely accurate up until that point after the 1600 the prophecies become more "generic" so that it was fairly easy to make them apply to the pope of the time.
Essentially up to the 1600s it is a history book and after that its a Nostradamus style "general" statement book.