Originally Posted by gladius

This is what you get after decades of left-wing, politically correct policies. Now some of them (not all) are starting to realize this wasn't such a good idea after all. Just because it feels good to want to have a multi-cultural society like they imagined, doesn't mean it is good, or if it even works. Shooting heroin up your arm sure feels good, but doesn't mean it is good. The problem with these left wingers is that they live in a fantasy, and refuse to sometimes look at realistic possibilties of what might go wrong, in the end you will pay the price. They should have had tougher measures of imigration from the begining, not necesarily stopping Muslim immigrants, but just limiting to nesacery levels. There were of course those politicians who favored this and warned about what would happen, but no one listen to them, they were drowned out and painted as racist. If you say one bad thing about Muslim immigration in Europe you are a racist. This is the begining of the end for Europe.

I seldom happen to fully agree with Gladius (though I often agree in part), but this is one of those times.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

LeEnfield

Unlike most countries, the French police can actually demand to see your papers without "probable cause". Basically this means they can stop you anytime and for any reason and demand ID. If you are found to be in the country illegal they can deport you within 48-72 hours. And to be honest, the police do use racial profiling. Meaning if you are of African or Arabic descent they will stop you. This is why illegal immigrants and terrorists generally stay away from France. Its too risky.

Actually most countries do not require Probable Cause to cause a person to produce Identification when requested by Law Enforcement.
Probable Cause is a need to articulate facts as to why an officer arrested a subject, is applying for a warrant ect.
Reasonable Suspicion is all that is really needed to stop a person and request ID.
In the US goverment issued ID 's to include drivers license are prperty of the issuing state and must be produced on demand of Law Enforcement.

This is one sad thing for Eurabia

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New wave of arson attacks hit Paris suburbs

CTV.ca

Chaos erupted again in Paris's poor suburbs where rioting youths set fire to cars early Saturday, as the unrest spread from Paris to at least three other French cities.

There were signs that clashes between riot police and angry youth were abating on Friday, but police say rioters had set fire to hundreds of vehicles across Paris suburbs in a wave of arson attacks.

The violence, which erupted more than a week ago, had been concentrated in the low-income region of Seine-Saint-Denis, northeast of Paris.

But police said rioters fired bullets into a vandalized bus and burned 85 more cars in Paris and Suresnes, a suburb just to the west. East of Paris, in Meaux, officials said youths pelted stones at rescuers trying to help someone who had fallen ill.

Warehouses in Aubervilliers, on the northern edge of Paris, were set ablaze, while other fires raged outside the capital in Lille, Toulouse, and Rouen.

The violence ignited over the accidental electrocution of two teens on Oct. 27 who fled a soccer game and hid in a power substation when they saw police enter the area.

Youths in the neighbourhood believe Traore Bouna, 15 and Zyed Benna, 17, were chased to their deaths by police.

A preliminary report issued Thursday cleared officers of any wrongdoing in the teen's deaths.

The roots of the tension lie in the poverty of the areas affected, home mostly to immigrants from Islamic North African countries.

During the day Friday, the burned remains of at least 520 cars littered the streets of Paris. The Interior Ministry said that five police officers were lightly injured by youths throwing stones or bottles.

Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin vowed to restore order. He postponed a trip to Canada amid the crisis.

Concerned that foreign media coverage was exaggerating the situation, the French Foreign Ministry spokesperson Jean-Baptiste Mattei said "I don't have the feeling that foreign tourists in Paris are in any way placed in danger by these events."

But the violence has alarmed the government of President Jacques Chirac.

"This is the first time (suburban violence) has lasted so long and the government appears taken aback at the magnitude," said Pascal Perrineau, director of the Centre for Study of French Political Life.

Religious leaders are expected to hold a silent march on Saturday in Aulnay-sous-Bois, one of the hard-hit suburbs, in an attempt to cool tensions.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...1104?hub=World

Originally Posted by phoenix80

This is one sad thing for Eurabia

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http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...1104?hub=World

[/quote]

This is bad. We're spread pretty thin this time so the warriors will have to come from those European countries which have prepared. There is probably not much time before an armed force moves in to join the rioters.

And the funny thing is that the US would have to go save their butt again.

First to your comment Gladius:

This is what you get after decades of left-wing, politically correct policies.

The idea of bringing immigrants to the Netherlands (I'm not in the mood for checking this for the rest of Europe) was an idea made by centre right legislations. It was mainly Christian right-parties combined with "Republican" parties. The socialist legislation started after they were brought here.

But that was just peanuts with what Missileer, Phoenix and Italian Guy managed to produce. What are you saying? That this is the vanguard of the Arabian/ muslim combined forces ready to march into Europe? I understand that you view on these matters are not as well informed, since you live a couple of thousand miles away and reporters giving the frenzied opinion on this.
But I hope you know about the many fractions within the Islam? You do know that before they have a combined army they will have years of strive first. The Sunni and Shi'a (the two main groups) hate eachothers guts fervently. I am not even talking about all the other fractions. Second, watch the news, you'll see poor Arabs, poor Asians and poor Africans, all with defferent religions, rioting side by side. This isn't about religion, this is about poverty and living conditions you and I can't even dream about.

I don't agree with you on what you just said, but I guess that is why you are a socialist and I'm not.
And anyways, since you said that our "[...]view on these matters is not as well informed, since you live a couple of thousand miles away and reporters giving the frenzied opinion on this" (I don't live a couple of thousand miles away, but whatever), my inference is: How ill-informed are the views of the Dutch people then, who didn't vote for your party but gave the majority of the votes to the opposite party?

Time to start topping the rioters, due process. France's legal system presumes guilt to begin with and you must prove innocence. I say when they begin immolating the old and infirm its time to suspend their human rights as they are not behaving as humans. Sometimes the Chinese actually do make sense with how they handle turmoil. I can't believe I said that...

The persistence of the violence prompted the American and Russian governments to advise citizens visiting Paris to avoid the suburbs, where authorities were struggling to gain control of the worst rioting in at least a decade.

An attack this week on a female bus passenger highlighted the savage nature of some of the violence. The woman, in her 50s and on crutches, was doused with an inflammable liquid and set afire after passengers were forced to leave the bus, blocked by burning objects on the road, judicial officials said.

Late Friday in Meaux, east of Paris, youths prevented firefighters from evacuating a sick person from an apartment in a housing project, pelting them with stones and torching the awaiting ambulance, an Interior Ministry officer said. The officer, not authorized to speak publicly, asked not to be named.

“I’m not able to sleep at night because you never know when a fire might break out,” said Mammed Chukri, 36, a Kurdish immigrant from northern Iraq living near a burned carpet warehouse. “I have three children and I live in a five-story building. If a fire hit, what would I do?”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9891709/page/2/

If you are out rioting you have committed an act of your own volition to join a violent movement. I say shoot to kill and meet force with force. They have chosen to do this, if they meet with a violent end it was of their own doing.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

Actually France has the tightest immigration policies in Europe. Its just as hard to enter France as it is to enter the USA.

Umm, bad example.

Go to San Diego and ask Jose how hard it is to get into the US, he will tell you that it is not hard at all.

We kind of have a dillema now in the US, we the world's longest unprotected border to our north and a border to the south where the theory is "What have I got to lose? If I get caught I get a couple nights rest in a cozy cell, warm food, and then a free bus ride back only to try it all over again. I am bound to get in by my sixth try." And it does not help that the Mexican government has started handing out illustrated pamplets showing their people how to safely get into America. Now, if we did things my way we would built a 12 foot tall wall all along the border but no, some ******** in Moscow decided to build a little wall around this place called Berlin and now every time someone tries to put up a way they will instantly be seen and trying to stop the spread of democracy.

Anyways, about the actual subject of this topic, I have pretty much purged my system of this subject. On another forum I compared these riots to the LA Race Riots and quite frankly I am sick of being called a racist for pointing out the plainly obvious and for typing "black people" instead of "muslim immigrants from north africa." It really saves time for my but it always comes out as racist so there we have it.

Originally Posted by bulldogg

If you are out rioting you have committed an act of your own volition to join a violent movement. I say shoot to kill and meet force with force. They have chosen to do this, if they meet with a violent end it was of their own doing.

While I tend to agree with you Democracies are somewhat more limited in their choice of actions in just such a situation. Since the American and French revolutions both fed off of each other for inspiration and ideas there is not a doubt in my mind that the French constitution has something about the right to protest and the right to protest means that the police can do nothing until a violent act has been committed and by that time it is too late.

Politics aside, I would tend to agree with you. The Kent State shooting was unfortunate but quite frankly I don't care, I disaprove of protesting. If you want to voice your opposition to the government do

Protesting is one thing. Rioting with destruction of property while deplorable is still yet another where I would still frown on lethal force. But this is murder and democracy or not it needs to be stopped. By holding back they are allowing this to continue. The government is failing to protect its citizens because it is afraid of being accused of racism or insensitivity? What kind of specious is that?? They chose to join a violent movement whose members are murdering innocent civilians- kill them.