I dont know when it hit me, but it did, awhile back I noticed the lack of commisioned officer on patrol, there were too many NCO's being interviewed on the news. Where are the butter bars, and the 1st LT's looking for facetime? As I became more aware of this, I made a point of looking of company grade officers, and saw VERY few outside of a hardshell with a handset in their grip. I dont know what prompted me to lookup the numbers yesterday, but they are way down from Nam, on a percentile basis, if you take aircrews out there are hard questions to be asked here. I know things have changed, but what happened to leading from the front?

So what are the numbers you found?

In some countries, mine included there are SOF unit(s) containing ONLY officers.
But that is another story unless you include units deployed to "The Stan" in your search for officers?

Interesting observation though.

lol im just happy you included aircrew b/c thats all i see all the time.

Originally Posted by nickzen

I dont know when it hit me, but it did, awhile back I noticed the lack of commisioned officer on patrol, there were too many NCO's being interviewed on the news. Where are the butter bars, and the 1st LT's looking for facetime? As I became more aware of this, I made a point of looking of company grade officers, and saw VERY few outside of a hardshell with a handset in their grip. I dont know what prompted me to lookup the numbers yesterday, but they are way down from Nam, on a percentile basis, if you take aircrews out there are hard questions to be asked here. I know things have changed, but what happened to leading from the front?

I'm not being sarcastic or condescending when I type this, but I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. Could you try to clarify the point a bit more. Right now it reads to me like you're saying the officers are cowards and hiding in a bunker instead of on the line.

Maybe with foot patrols so spread out the officers are staying in one point with comms to co ordinate the squads on foot???
Just a thought.

I can't comment on the American situation, but in at least two separate rocket hits on Australian patrols in Bagdad, causing injuries, among the wounded were officers (LT & CAPT). Australian Officers are definately in the crap with their men. I work with one of them now - the CAPT. He is lucky to be alive and got good care from the American meds who patched him up.

We have lost some heavy collars in this war, they were out with their guys. Other brass have also taken hits.

I'm not sure one can judge whether or not officers are putting out based on the enlisted to officer kill ratios, there are far more enlisted than officers out there, after all.

Take a look at the list of the dead. The proportions are right. I personally have lost three friends to date, one LTC, one CSM, and one 1SG. I knew one of the COLs (a Dr.) who was lost, but only peripherally.

Everybody out there is in the ****.

This was based purely on personal observation, until a network newscast of a 2nd Lt in a firefight inside a Stryker caught my eye. A google search of "officer casualties" produced a link to an academic review of officer casualties. This being a conflict with theatre-wide engagement, one would expect a more repesentitive casualty result. We should be looking at this objectively, and your anecdotal references are hardly to the point. The proportions are not right, they are 4% under Nam, and that makes NO allowance for the nature of the conflict, or the nuances of the numbers. How can so many company grade, nevermind field grade officers, escape chance?

To put it another way, we were all in this battle at one point in our lives, REFORGER and NTC, ever give a commander, or command group a break, not? Even with MILES, you were looking for the officers, Luke and Mohammed are NO different! So Mo can't figure out the antenees, or convoy sequences and where to explode the IED?

I had the wild experience of serving under LTC Gray, later to be Marine Corp Commandant. I can still hear him screaming, "massed fires, lead from the front", he taught us to read and think. So I am thinking, what is wrong with this picture, something is not right.

I'm not seeing what you're saying at all, and I haven't seen what you claim over there, either.

I won't go as far to say that everyone over there is in the ****, because they aren't, but those that are aren't keeping heavy collars locked in the FOBs that I have noticed.

I also don't get why you are trying to compare Iraq with Vietnam. It is a completely different war, fought on a completely different battlefield with very different tactics and circumstances.

Maybe I'm just not understanding.

Do you have the link to the study you found?