Wolfen, I thought of that a lot as well which is why I tolerate pretty much every religion and have respect for them as well. Except Buddhism.
Buddhism I always felt was this religion of defeatism where one gives up everything, loses every battle and declares victory. Losing is the new winning in Buddhism. In my book, if you're not going to contribute to society, quit taking our damn money (donations), don't eat and just f***ing die because we made the money through all the things you said were WRONG and that we should give up on all of them. Well I got news for them. If we all went into the woods to meditate and give up everything in the world, we'd all starve to death.
I think we ought to stop fighting about religion because if anything, didn't our great teachers tell us to tolerate and love one another? When we kill in the name of religion, we're really killing for something else but we're using religion and God as an excuse and a way to manipulate others into fighting for our own greedy little ends.

Originally Posted by Del Boy

I absolutely agree with you Wolfen. And some who call themselves religious will even try to tell you that it is not the same God! I have heard some Muslims claim, for example, that Allah is not just their definition of the same God. Madness. Gives extremists something to kill for, I guess. I feel that every man has his own road to God, his own relationship with God, and that is his own business. And I am always happy to shake on that.

Even Jesus Himself administered to us to have a personal relationship with God - which is the purpose of the "helper" that is the Holy Spirit (in Christian doctrine): To guide us in our walk, using that still, small voice to direct us in God's desires for our life in the walk we're currently on at the time.

Further, in Acts, Paul admonishes us not to tempt another to sin when we do things that "are not sin for [us]." The implication is clear: Sin could be for one to suffer through a practice, but it may not be for the other.

I analogize it to alcohol.

If you're NOT an alcoholic, it is not a sin to have wine with dinner - Jesus and the apostles drank wine, just never to excess. Timothy was told by Paul to have wine to cure his stomach.

However, it WOULD be sin if you're an alcoholic, as drunkards (specific terminology) shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven. If you drink, the booze will come before God, so it is sin.

We know that some things are always "across the board" sin: Using the Lord's name in vain, blasphemy, theft, murder, etc.

But other things are not so clear, and it is up to us to listen to the Holy Spirit (if born again) to guide us in what is not good for us and what is permissible for us. I'll never understand professing Christians who fail to see this, or more likely ignore it, and spend their lives wasting time and energy to pick out the "sins" of others. Personally, I'd rather spend that time and energy listening to the Holy Spirit and improving MY walk with God, leaving you to yours - it is between you and God and not for me to judge. I will offer LOVING correction if I see you committing one of the "across the board" sins (and the only sin we cannot be forgiven is blasphemy (denial) of the Holy Spirit), bot otherwise your walk is yours.

I am enjoy our interaction in this discussion very much, Del. You're good people. Thank you for remaining so polite and respectful and carrying the topic, usually a very controversial one, forward in such a positive manner.

Originally Posted by wolfen

I know I will take that under consideration to do though

Most of my life I have studied religion and have come to the conclusion that all single deity religions except Satan worshipers worship the same God, some call him God, some call him Allah, some call him the Great Spirit, and yet all the religions I've com in contact with will be really quick to say the other religions are going to hell because their wrong. Now if your all worshiping the same God, then how can one religion be wrong and one be right?

Many DO twist the tenets of God to condone their desires and not be held to conviction. But I do agree with you: If you look at all the established religions, all have several underlying principles that are little different, such as worshiping no other God and loving your neighbor.

Wars begin over the disagreement with the rest. It's folly. It's the "my God can beat up your god" argument and the need to excuse your own sins by comparing yourself to others and finding yourself to be better. That's not God, and it's not loving correction. It's moral and righteous superiority. And it's not biblical in any religion, though extremists cannot be told this.

I sincerely hope -- and I am praying for you over this -- that you don't allow the loud mouths of the minority turn you away from the silent love of the majority when it comes to spiritual peace. Jesus told us that not everyone that goes to judgment and says that they preached His name and cast out demons and did works will enter heaven, that He will say, "Go away, for I never knew you." Who are these? Is not the greatest sin turning others AWAY from God, rather than loving them INTO God? I believe in Jesus Christ as my personal savior, and my personal savior wants all to come to Him. I would not want to stand before Him and be read the list of all those that my words and actions made reject God.

If my doctrine is incorrect and I've led people astray, then I believe I will be forgiven because He knows that, in my heart, I only wished to spread love and bring to Christ as many as possible. That will not occur by beating people over the head with a bible of ANY faith.

I implore you to meditate on God, to seek Him, the REAL Him. If you honestly and earnestly seek, He will find you, right where you are, and you may begin your walk. You don't have to believe in Him to seek Him - He'll take care of that, trust me. You don't have to find Him through me, or a Muslim, or a Buddhist, or clergy. He's waiting for a personal relationship with you, and that, my good sir, is the difference between being spiritual and being religious. Be religious about brushing your teeth. Be spiritual when it comes to seeking God in your own way.

But don't allow the self-righteous to disgust you towards the concept of a loving, compassionate, forgiving God - PLEASE! He loves you, and so do I. "Faith, hope and love; and the greatest of these is love." That's God, my brother.

I hope you don't feel I am preaching to you - that is NOT my intent. If you do, I humbly ask your forgiveness and will refrain from further comment to you about it. It just upsets me that so many get turned off to God because the self-seen morally superior are screaming their message and forgetting that the greatest is love. I really hope I will not meet that conviction when I go home to meet my Jesus.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

The annoying folks at Churches that use it as a platform to give them power otherwise unattainable... the ones that use faith to try to get you to trust them while they are running a scam.
I know what you mean.

Dale, my very good friend (I am honored to call you that, brother), please read my reply to wolfen above.

Not all of us that know God in our hearts are like that. MOST of us are not. The minority always yell the loudest, like the a@@holes at Westboro Baptist, the Phelps "God hates fags" bunch. We are quieter because we concentrate on our actions and life and love to show God to others, leaving our words to be kind and loving.

I adore you, bro.

Amen to all of that.
What I mean is, there are these bunch who do that and it gives Christianity a bad name.

When I was young, seventeen, my ship took me to LA. We had, in the evening, a few guys come on board collecting for charity. When they discovered how poorly we were paid, they actually gave us a little to go ashore! Anyway, they invited us to their church. About 4 of us went that weelend - they collected us. The church must have been baptist, the congragation was almost completely black - if not all so. There was a lot of singing and worship aloud. I enjoyed it. Then they asked, did anyone want to come forward. being a polite young fellow, forward I went. There was a lot of singing, a lot of laying on of hands, and congratulations and Halleluyahs, and everybody celebrated that I was saved! My mates had a good laugh that I was well up for it, and I thought, well, it all helps! Another of my positive American experiences. God Bless America.

Hello - that black church - does that put us back on topic?

Back to Obamas church, IO have to agree withe comment I read either on here or on another board I frequent, if they support Africa, then move to Africa and support Africa from there, theres enough Americans here in America that could use a little to a lot of help.