Topic: New Zealand: Weapons raids, arrests (AP) 2

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October 17th, 2007   Post 11
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October 17th, 2007   Post 12
MontyB
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Actually you might be able to answer this, what law abiding reason would you need/want Molotov cocktails?
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October 17th, 2007   Post 13
Kiwi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Actually you might be able to answer this, what law abiding reason would you need/want Molotov cocktails?
Can't start the BBQ?

Terrorists are Terrorists no matter what platform they are screaming from.

*cough* watermellons *cough*
 
October 19th, 2007   Post 14
Infern0
Banned
 
Anger at this week's anti-terrorism raids is mounting across the country with a hikoi in Whakatane and protests in Auckland and Wellington.
View video ... Your say

Up to 1000 people joined the hikoi, stopping outside Whakatane's police station where a mass of children gave a rousing haka.
Outside the Auckland District Court, about 30 people - including former hostage in Iraq Harmeet Sooden - rallied to support seven suspects. They carried placards saying "Free our friends of the anti-terror laws" and "Defend Maori activists".
Name suppression was lifted on two of the accused but the decisions are to be appealed.
It was also indicated in court that the police commissioner was likely to decide by the end of next week whether he would seek to lay charges under the Terrorism Suppression Act.
In Wellington, about 100 protesters gathered outside the district court for the appearance of four accused.
About 40 supporters had gone into the courtroom where the quartet were due to appear, but were sent out by the judge because the applications were being heard in closed court.
Among the group that came into court four people were wearing t-shirts each with a word that spelled out the sentence "I Love U S" (I love Yous).
Protesters outside the court were holding signs saying, "Activism is not terrorism" and "Police State Hate".
There was a strong police presence at the court, but so far the gathering has been peaceful.
Speeches included messages of support for the arrested people, spoken in Maori and English.
Meanwhile, in an emotional speech to the Whakatane hikoi, a bus driver has told how he feared for his life when his bus taking children to their kohanga reo on Monday was stopped and boarded by armed police.
The hikoi was organised by locals unhappy about distress caused to kohanga reo pupils, who they say were terrified by police entering the bus during the operation.
Police Minister Annette King and Education Minister Steve Maharey have both said they were told the armed offenders squad did not enter the bus.
The driver said his bus was boarded by an officer with a gun and he was petrified.
He said all he could think about were incidents such as the fatal shooting of a man in Christchurch by police after they were threatened by him with a hammer.
He said he had no idea what police were capable of, and only imagined what terror the children felt.
Police watched the hikoi from the steps of the police station, surrounded by children in Ruatoki School uniforms who carried out the haka.
 
October 19th, 2007   Post 15
Kiwi
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Quote:
He said he had no idea what police were capable of, and only imagined what terror the children felt.
What terror? the kids would of been going hey cool bro check it out u's
 
October 19th, 2007   Post 16
Infern0
Banned
 
There's some more decent commentary from Russel Brown:

Quote:
Te Qaeda and the God Squad | Oct 16, 2007 11:02

The Dominion Post today covers yesterday's police raids in part by harking back 30 years, to the Full Gospel Mission -- better known as the "God Squad" -- the millenarian religious sect whose apparent stockpiling of weapons at a compound in Waipara was a huge news story in 1977. It's a story with lessons for all sides of our new controversy.

Some members of the sect served at Christchurch's Wigram Air Force Base, and tensions about their connections to the Full Gospel Mission developed through the early 1970s. In May and June of 1977, police and military personnel searched the Mission's Waipara property -- using a warrant that contained the phrase "subversive conspiracy" -- and houses owned by sect members in the Hutt Valley.

But the story didn't break until two sect members driving north were stopped by armed police in Blenheim, and their car searched for explosives. The next day Truth broke the story on its front page, under the headline 'Odd Sect Gun Raid'.

Truth wrote of "a web of intrigue" at a "fortress-like structure" and hinted in a separate story that the sect had been recruiting "airmen skilled in communications". Rumours of a "nuclear pit" at the compound (actually a swimming pool) were quoted as fact. The report set the tone for an orgy of press coverage that should give pause to anyone who complains about today's media. The Press, The Dominion and the Evening Post went wild with words like "sinister", "brainwashed", and "bizarre".

The Herald this morning has a photo of a man it describes as a "paramilitary freedom fighter" fleeing from police. Much as I am inclined to, as The Chills put it once, never trust a man in camouflage gear, that seems a pretty adventurous caption. And the Dom Post's lead slaps a headline, Napalm bombs found in anti-terror swoop, on a story that doesn't exactly seem to say that.

Yesterday, various media organisations also ran with anonymously-sourced claims that the police raids were sparked by a threat against the life of the Prime Minister, even though Police Commissioner Howard Broad carefully said there was no imminent target.

The authorities in 1977 were not so measured in their utterances. Two days after the Truth story, the SIS director Paul Molyneux was reported as saying his organisation was "working with the police to establish if the activities of the sect involved terrorist or subversive aspects". Molyneux went on to publicly dismiss the claim of a set member that the weapons seized in police searches were part of an antique collection: "They may say that it was a private collection, but I am not naïve enough to think that is so," he blustered.

Several folk of North Canterbury saw fit to erect an effigy of a figure on gallows at the gate of the Mission property, and to let loose shotgun blasts in the area.

It was more than a month before a magistrate found that the weapons were legally obtained and possessed, and the story gradually faded -- until another series of searches for weapons in 1987. The Mission fell apart after its messianic leader, Douglas Metcalf (who turned out to have been having his way with the womenfolk) died in 1989.

But, as the Dom Post's story this morning points out:

[O]ne former member of the Full Gospel Mission, John Turton, who later became a Presbyterian minister at Reporoa, said the sect members marched as a military group "basically preparing for what I consider was anarchy".

Police raids on the camp and members' homes throughout New Zealand in 1977 blunted its military capacity. Firearms and ammunition were confiscated and charges were laid against several sect members, including some against Dr Metcalf that were later dismissed.

Mr Turton later said the police action prevented a siege in the style of the shootout in Waco, Texas, where a 51-day stand-off between a religious cult led by David Koresh led to the death of Koresh and 85 of his Branch Davidian followers.

Police raided Camp David again in 1987, but – without the powers conferred by the Terrorism Suppression Act, which only came into force in 2002 – a glitch with the search warrant gave cult members 48 hours to bury their arms along the highway between Waipara and Murchison and in forests, said Mr Turton.

So perhaps the God Squad wasn't entirely benign.

Various people were quick yesterday to bemoan the crushing of their civil rights, to (for goodness sake) compare the raids to activities at Guantanamo Bay and, even in the sane and sensible Public Address forums, allege sweeping state conspiracies without a shred of evidence.

There is also a remarkably widely-held belief that TV3's presence with a camera at the early morning entry to the Abel Smith Street house in Wellington is the fruit of a conspiracy between the police and the media. This not only has no basis in fact, it's completely ****ing stupid.

I spoke to TV3's news chief Mark Jennings yesterday afternoon, who said that a cameraman working on Sunrise, saw the police on their way to exercise their warrant nearby, grabbed his camera and followed them, and got a couple of minutes of very useful footage, which TV3 posted as soon as it could, without even adding a commentary. If the dark forces of state control had really been looking to stage a media event, do you really think they'd pick the guy from Sunrise? And wouldn't they have invited along a reporter too?

My own view is that there clearly seems to be enough evidence to warrant some form of police intervention, and that the police have so far (with the exception of a farcical attempt to search without a warrant in Christchurch) played it by the book. The Herald has an interview with a woman who was subject to the recruiting entreaties of the balaclava-clad "freedom fighters" of Ruatoki -- she thought they were " out there and pretty mad" -- and a story (rather disappointing after last night's promotion on the paper's website) of how two local hunters stumbled on one of the camps. The two young men were threatened, retreated, and, as you would, informed the police, who were already investigating the "training camps".

This is the Trade Me feedback page for one of the men arrested, who traded as hunt4life. He bought a hell of a lot of stuff -- ammunition, combat gear, at least one semi-automatic rifle (of a type that could plausibly used for hunting) -- and sold very little. Whatever else might be discovered about hunt4life, his Trade Me rep was first-class.

I didn't see cyber-hori's feedback, but Scoop's photograph of the search warrant for the Wellington house suggests a similar haul.

Would these people really do what is alleged? I don't know, but this blog, which seems connected to some of those arrested, seems to countenance armed resistance in theory. On Indymedia, one looney (who also wanted to come to the New Year "freedom fighters" gathering that seems of interest to the police) is calling for an end to peaceful protest and to "rise and strike down those who have inflicted their pain into the Name of Freedom."

I suspect that most of the people scared witless by the police action yesterday are guilty of nothing more than an association with persons of interest. And I do not think we were facing sectarian warfare or anything of the kind. But it isn't out of the question that a handful of people might act on crazy ideas, as greenies and animal liberationists have before, in other places.

That remains to be seen, just as it remains to be seen that the invoking of the Suppression of Terrorism Act has been appropriate (there's a feeling in certain parts of the public sector that the scale of the operation was intended to demonstrate to our allies that we're not the weak link they link we are, but, again, that's just speculation). But I'm fairly sure that things have been going on that warrant the attention of the police at some level, and I'd feel the same way if those alleged to be involved were right-wing nutters.

Perhaps now would be a good time for everyone to chill out, and perhaps even have a giggle at this post from another forum:

one of the cyber-hori items was:

Army camo / camoflauge pants XXXXL

Fattest terrorist ever.

LOL …
http://publicaddress.net/default,4544.sm#post4544
 
October 20th, 2007   Post 17
Infern0
Banned
 
good bit of backstory here

Quote:
Activist Tame Iti's iwi is renowned for its staunch independence, as well as its path of isolation and harrowing loss. Ruth Laugesen reports.
Guerrillas in our midst? No says Rawiri Taonui


Tuhoe people, says Maori broadcaster Willie Jackson, radiate toughness.
"They are known for their staunchness, around the Maori language, about their land," says Jackson, who is related by marriage to Tuhoe activist Tame Iti.
"You know straight away when Tuhoes are in town, or working for you. Their Tuhoetanga is so prominent; there's a certain pride. They just exude it," he says.
The tribe, immortalised in Elsdon Best's 1925 history Children of the Mist, have a mystique as powerful as the remote and rugged Urewera region that is their home ground. But now, in the wake of allegations of a series of armed training camps in the Urewera, the tribe is gaining a new notoriety, with headlines such as "Guerrillas in the Mist".
Such talk is nonsense, says Jackson. But he says there is something special about this tribe who, for longer than any other iwi, stayed out of the reach of colonial control and British cultural influence.
Even today, children growing up in the remote valley of Ruatoki, where Iti has a property, see the world through a distinct cultural lens.
"It's one of the last areas where, if you meet someone from Ruatoki, nine times out of 10 you expect them to be a Maori speaker. They come out to the cities and come across Maori who haven't had the language for a couple of generations," says Jackson.
Tuhoe people led the national Maori language renaissance, says Jackson, and Tuhoe broadcasters were at the forefront when the first Maori radio and television services were launched.
Tuhoe staunchness crops up in other ways too. Starting about a decade ago, some began calling themselves members of the "Tuhoe Nation". Such sentiments are strongest in the Urewera area, where a small minority of Tuhoe's 33,000 still live. The rest have scattered around New Zealand and into Australia in search of economic opportunity.
In Tuhoe land though, signs mark the borders. The reason for talk of nationhood, says Tamati Kruger, head of Tuhoe's treaty negotiations team, is that an iwi is indeed a nation, not a tribe. Does that mean it has its own borders, should collect taxes, have its own defence force and even a seat at the UN? Indeed, says Kruger. "Those would be seen as the characteristics of nationhood," he says.
But Matt Te Pou, who led some of the Tuhoe claims before the Waitangi Tribunal in 2005, says Tuhoe are not a state within a state. Tuhoe nationhood is "just a statement that we know our borders".
"I went to Vietnam and fought under the (New Zealand) flag and saw my mates die. I have no difficulties with the flag. I felt hurt when people shot at it on the ground," he says, referring to Iti's much replayed shooting of the New Zealand flag during the tribunal hearings.
He says the iwi's economic future lies in gaining a treaty settlement. The tribunal report was due early next year, but has since been delayed. It should provide a basis for negotiating a settlement.
THE REPUTATION of Tuhoe for a strong sense of self has a long history. The lasting impression Elsdon Best left is that the children of the mist had chosen to remain apart in their impregnable mountains. But Best did his research at the turn of the 19th century, when Tuhoe had already been through a cataclysm. The Ureweras were always a refuge in an area bristling with competing tribes. But Crown confiscations had left Tuhoe more isolated, marginalised and hemmed in.
This cataclysm began unfolding in 1865, when Anglican priest Rev Carl Volkner was killed at Opotiki by locals from the Te Whakatohea tribe. At the instigation of Kereopa Te Rau, from Taranaki, Volkner was hanged, before his eyes were scooped out and eaten.
Tuhoe had nothing to do with the killing, but Te Rau fled to the Ureweras and Tuhoe were accused of involvement. The government reaction was overwhelming. In 1866 181,000ha of land was confiscated by the government from Tuhoe, Te Whakatohea and Ngati Awa. Ultimately, Tuhoe lost 5700ha on their northern border. The Crown took Tuhoe's only substantial flat land and their only access to the coast. This was most of their fertile, cropping land, and the pathway to rich sources of kaimoana in the sea.
The Tuhoe people were left with harsh, more difficult land, setting the scene for later famines.
Tuhoe were left with "encircled lands", in the words of historian Judith Binney in her evidence to the Waitangi Tribunal.
Even now, the confiscation line looms large for the locals. Kruger says when driving past it feels to him "like it would if you had to travel every day past a point where your family was murdered".
It was inside the Tuhoe side of the line that police chose to set up their roadblock last Monday, prompting outrage among the locals.
But the 1866 confiscations were only the beginning. Tuhoe's isolation and loss was to intensify. Two years later the Maori leader Te Kooti and his followers began what Michael King has called "the most effective guerrilla war ever waged in this country". Te Kooti killed about 30 Europeans and at least 20 Maori men, women and children in raids on Poverty Bay settlements.
When the government gave chase, Te Kooti took sanctuary in the Ureweras among Tuhoe, provoking a bitter, three-year campaign by the government: "In a policy aimed at turning the tribe away from Te Kooti, a scorched earth campaign was unleashed against Tuhoe; people were imprisoned and killed, their cultivations and homes destroyed, and stock killed or run off. Through starvation, deprivation and atrocities at the hands of the government's Maori forces, Tuhoe submitted to the Crown," says Te Ara, the online encyclopaedia of New Zealand.
Te Kooti was never handed over. But according to Binney, Tuhoe's peace compact with the government accepted Tuhoe as a "self-governing realm" in exchange for Tuhoe's active assistance in the last stages of the colonial war.
By 1872 the chiefs of a governing council made a historic decision to protect themselves from the land-hungry Pakeha. They closed access to their lands. Signposts went up warning strangers, especially Pakeha, not to enter. On the northern confiscation line, one chief, Eru Tamaikoha, put up signs warning "Trespassers will be eaten".
"The encircling boundaries that they proclaimed were intended to enable them to choose who entered their realm, and on what terms," says Binney.
Remarkably, for a time at least, it also looked like the New Zealand government would give Tuhoe a form of independence. The Urewera District Native Reserve Act of 1896 was drawn up by Premier Richard Seddon to allow the Urewera people to be regionally autonomous, in his words a "self-governing" people.
That act "was unique in that it recognised the encircling boundaries of a tribally defined zone in the centre of the North Island," says Binney. "The act was presented as an experiment in tribal self-government; it thus allowed for other possibilities than the discourse of `one nation, one law'."
But as Tuhoe tried to hold the government to its perhaps insincere promise, tragedy was unfolding on a staggering scale. A wave of disease, extreme frosts, crop failures and famine sent Tuhoe reeling. Census figures indicate that between 1896 and 1901, 23% of the Tuhoe population died, says Binney. A high proportion were children under 15. With Seddon's death in 1906, the Tuhoe dream of self-governance that still lives for some today began to be torn down. The Liberal government abandoned attempts at partnership, says Binney, and reverted to the view that a separate Tuhoe "realm" contradicted the uniformity of laws.
There was to be a final crushing of hope. In 1907 the messianic pacifist leader Rua Kenana offered a new path to a people in despair by establishing a "City of God" for around 600, deep within the Ureweras. Trade, agriculture, even banking and mining, were part of his plan.
But the government saw Kenana as subversive, and in 1916 a large military force was sent in to crush him, using minor charges of supplying liquor as a pretext for what historians now consider to be an illegal armed invasion. Kenana was arrested deep in the Ureweras at Maungapohatu by 57 constables from Auckland, and more from Gisborne and Whakatane. Kenana was unarmed, but a shot was fired, and in the resulting gunfight two Tuhoe were killed, including Kenana's son.
Kenana was taken to Auckland and tried for sedition, but was in the end only found guilty of "moral" resistance to arrest. He served an excessive sentence a year's hard labour followed by 18 months' imprisonment. And when police arrived in the Ureweras again last week, the traumatic intrusion of 1916 came alive all over again.
Outside the courthouse in Rotorua, where Tame Iti's bail application was being heard last week, protesters held aloft placards bearing the name Rua Kenana.
According to Bernice Tai, who lives in the Matahi Valley in the Ureweras, Kenana was the last leader Tuhoe had who was able to secure them the economic base to be a nation.
"He was the only one to set about to achieve what the Pakeha have today," she says.
And she says the invoking of the Terrorism Suppression Act last week reminded her people of the Tohunga Suppression Act that was used against Rua Kenana.
"It really pisses me off. It's come to a point where it's shown our people have never assimilated to the system. For the whole 200 years, whatever that they've been here in our faces, trying to assimilate us.
"What is wrong," asks Tai, "with our people achieving what we were from the start? Which was a peaceful, loving people."
Ruth Laugesen is political editor of the Sunday Star-Times.
 
October 21st, 2007   Post 18
5.56X45mm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Actually you might be able to answer this, what law abiding reason would you need/want Molotov cocktails?
Those that have been stripped of their rights. Their government has restricted their access to firearms for self defense against an unjust government. If you cannot gain access to a pistol, rifle, shotgun, tank, or rocket launcher. And you must still fight and defend your life, family, and freedoms. I expect you to use a Molotov Cocktail or even a sharpen stick.
 
October 21st, 2007   Post 19
MontyB
Tribunus Laticlavius
 
 
Oh good grief a conspiracy theorist.

Careful though the government could be watching you think that black SUV across the road is there by chance?
 
October 21st, 2007   Post 20
Infern0
Banned
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm
Those that have been stripped of their rights. Their government has restricted their access to firearms for self defense against an unjust government. If you cannot gain access to a pistol, rifle, shotgun, tank, or rocket launcher. And you must still fight and defend your life, family, and freedoms. I expect you to use a Molotov Cocktail or even a sharpen stick.

....or will be used to firebomb a rival gang associates house


which is more likely in New Zealand?


guess correctly and you win a cookie
 



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