How I wish that you guys were right, and that Iran posed no threat, that the aims and ambitions of militant Islam were self-contained, that your own government represented the villain of the piece, and that all you need is a change of party at the top; those nasty Christians and oil-men were the crux of the problem.

Alas. I am afraid that all that is wishful thinking. Geo W is not your bogey-man. Your next president will be obliged to take up the cudgels, so get set for a long rough ride. Sad but true.

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee

You are free to go there if you want.

when I turn 18, if it isn't any better, yes I am.

Mind you, I love America. It's a beautiful country, a diverse climate, relatively low crime, and a fair justice system, opportunities are endless. But I do not support the leadership and think that it is being led into the ground. Not to mention the decrease in skilled labor (Yes we are creating jobs, but at McDonalds and WalMart. My 8 year old cousin could scan barcodes for a liviing. But no manufactuing jobs.) and the rapidly increasing defecit, coupled with the ever increasing weakness of the dollar.

But it's YOUR country son, isn't it? There should be an unbreakable link between it and you.

Ask not what USA can do for you, but rather what you can do for USA.

Originally Posted by Del Boy

But it's YOUR country son, isn't it? There should be an unbreakable link between it and you.

Ask not what USA can do for you, but rather what you can do for USA.

Del Boy

Our system is currently broke. We have fallen victim to a group of Robber Barons than make people look like the 1920's JP Morgan, Andrew Carnegie, and Arthur Vanderbilt look like saints in comparison.

We don't need a JFK, what we need is a new Teddy Roosevelt.

Only the ultra-rich prosper in this society everybody else is told to fend for themselves which is a pretty difficult task given that the uber-rich happen to hold all the cards.

I haven't given up yet, but I must admit to being discouraged. I have absolutely no intention of being a expendable pawn in the world Global Corporations.

And incidentally, the USA is suffering a massive 'brain drain'. All the Scientists, Doctors, Engineers and Inventors worth a damn have pack their bags and left (mostly to Canada and a few to Europe). American used to boast of having a highly educated population, and now all those people are leaving by the boatload.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

I don't think there were WMDs in Iraq but in the runup, Saddam sure as heck was acting like a guy who had them. Turns out he was a dictator who made some fatal decisions.
Iran didn't exactly behave like an innocent country either.
Mmarsh, elections are next year so you shouldn't have to worry too much. I don't see the Republicans winning it the next time around.
Maybe we got to understand that this is just how governments over there behave. They need to give their population the perception that they're actively going against the US so that they are not undermined by the likes of Al Qaeda and other groups who are a threat to many of their governments.
Or Iranian intelligence is deliberately feeding false information to humiliate the US.
Or like Mmarsh says, there's some people at the top that need a little changing.

Saddam had to act like he had WMD to keep his country, and, strangely enough, Saddam lost his country because he had to act like he had WMD.
Saddam painted himself into a corner.

The question is did anyone in White House know beforehand that Saddam had no WMD, and yet said Saddam had WMD to pressure the United States Congress into granting the President the use of the United States Military for action against Iraq, which would be a clear violation of US Federal Law.

Not the same as Saddam (or Iran) saying they have or had Weapons they do not or did not have.

I think America's decline is in discipline. The kids are so undisciplined and any attempt to discipline them can be seen as "child abuse." So the kids are undisciplined and they don't learn anything. And when they don't learn anything, they don't become useful. But somehow they learn to become arrogant about their own deficiencies. They think it's cool to be stupid. Cool to have poor vocabulary. Cool to be poor.
And I don't think the guys at the top care about the country. Not the education, not the environment... because these Corporations and those who are on their payroll can just pack up and leave to some tranquil place on the earth while the rest of us have to deal with the s*** they left behind for us.
Del Boy, I don't believe anyone is truly bound to the country of their birth to death. When we feel another land is more representative of our priorities and values, we should have the right to have a chance at immigrating.

Originally Posted by Gator

Saddam had to act like he had WMD to keep his country, and, strangely enough, Saddam lost his country because he had to act like he had WMD.
Saddam painted himself into a corner.

The question is did anyone in White House know beforehand that Saddam had no WMD, and yet said Saddam had WMD to pressure the United States Congress into granting the President the use of the United States Military for action against Iraq, which would be a clear violation of US Federal Law.

Not the same as Saddam (or Iran) saying they have or had Weapons they do not or did not have.

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Very true. There is another explaination for Saddam behavior -Saddam himself was lied to. It is entirely possible that Saddam told his Scientists to create a bomb but do to a lack of resources, techical knowledge, or will his eggheads were unable to. So they told him a very plausible lie so that he wouldn't punish there families.

Remember this was a guy whose son tortured his own soccer team players because they lost a match he wagered on. Being Saddams messenger of ill tidings was often fatal to the messenger.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

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Very true. There is another explaination for Saddam behavior -Saddam himself was lied to. It is entirely possible that Saddam told his Scientists to create a bomb but do to a lack of resources, techical knowledge, or will his eggheads were unable to. So they told him a very plausible lie so that he wouldn't punish there families.

Remember this was a guy whose son tortured his own soccer team players because they lost a match he wagered on. Being Saddams messenger of ill tidings was often fatal to the messenger.

It is possible, but, I do not believe that they would lie to Saddam, it makes no sense to have them lie while living in Iraq working for Saddam, after all, with the Weapons (or in this case implying) they stood a chance of getting Attacked for having them (or merely making people think they had them), so, it was a game, in my opinion, nothing more.

Saddam used his tap dance around the issue not to threaten the USA, but to threaten his own people, and the people directly around him, while trying to have the sanctions imposed lifted by saying he did not have WMD, which he did not have.

I believe it was more of a mere numbers game, and he was playing the same game.
He could not prove he got rid of WMD he never had in the first place because our numbers were too high, merely to keep Saddam in check, and, Saddam was not overly worried about proving such because it kept his people in check, and those directly around his nation who wanted him gone in check.
But, I do not believe Saddam wanted such Weapons, because the UN would have no doubt found them eventually, which would have caused Saddam to lose the game he was playing.

Unless of course the people working for Saddam wanted the sanctions kept in place, and have Iraq attacked by the United States, which would (and did) cause Saddam to be taken out of Power, but the people at the top in Iraq lost the most by having the United States invade, so that would have not been a good move on their part.