Originally Posted by Ted

Wake up friend, if the death penalty was so deterring it wouldn't be necessary anymore. The fact that we are having this discussion means only one thing: it doens't work!

Just to clear up this point, the death penalty does deter re-offending and that is the point to it, I am not a "prisons are for rehabilitation" kind of guy we lock people up as a method of punishment and to remove them from society that is all.

Originally Posted by perseus

The point of this thread was not to discuss the merits of capital punishment, but to establish a cheap, humane and reliable means of death perhaps for prisoner's who prefer that sentence. Indeed for others who have good reasons to commit suicide such as incurable chronic pain.

Surely it isn't rocket science to kill someone painlessly, why all the difficulty finding veins and such nonsense? Why does there need to be three injections administered automatically? It seems like a sledge hammer to crack a nut if you forgive the inference!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8291373.stm

I was under the impression that the 3 injections thing was done to provide a sense of escapism for the executioner, one of the biggest concerns in executions is not with the comfort of the condemned but with the mental well being of the of the guy flicking the switch.

If you want it painless, just put them in a pressure chamber and slowly let out the oxygen. Not in one go; just slowly. The convict will become tired, go to sleep and never wake up.

Originally Posted by MontyB

Just to clear up this point, the death penalty does deter re-offending and that is the point to it, I am not a "prisons are for rehabilitation" kind of guy we lock people up as a method of punishment and to remove them from society that is all.

But what is the purpose of punishment? Does it mean you want to put them away, leave them be and set them out again. You know for sure that he will do "it" again. I am under the impression that punishment is a means to change someone behaviour. So at one point in time the offender has to have his learning-moment. And the time he is doing in a correctional center is perfect for learning new things... If he gets it he'll change is ways, if not, them you punish him again when he does something again.

But at some point you reach the end of the learning curve and in terms of punishment it would be at the point that society has decided to lock you up and throw away the key, after that point it doesn't matter how much you learn or how you change your life as you become nothing more than a burden to the law abiding.

It is at that point I firmly believe that the death penalty should become automatic and it shouldn't matter whether you raped, murdered or crossed against the lights as you will never be anything more than a massive waste of state funds which would be far better off spent on education, health or in taxpayers pockets.

THIS MAY SOUND SICK OR UNREALISTIC BUT Y DONT YOU STRAPP THEM TO EXPLOSIVES IN A MANNER THAT DOSENT ALLOW THEM TO REMOVE IT PLACE THEM IN A DESERT WITH A TIMER WHILST SEDATED
IF U R GUNNA GO U MAY ASWELL GO IN STYLE.....

OR NOT

IM NOT IN FAVOR OF THE DEATH PENALTY IMAGINE THE PUNISHMENT OF SOME ONE BEING LOCKED AWAY ALONE IN THEiR CELL FOREVER

But what about my oxygen idea MontyB, that must be pretty humane

And I am not always opposed to the death penalty. I remember the case of Jeffrey Dahmer. He killed quit a few kids, cut them up and ate them. When he was on trail he said he'd do it again if he had the chance. In this case removing him from society seems the only option.

So whats the advantage of oxygen depressurisation over a simple nitrogen cylinder & mask? In the former case you need a large chamber capable of withstanding 14.4 ibs/sq inch, a vaccum pump, controlled flow evacuation and an large oxygen supply. The process would also be slower and more complicated since you need to purge nitrogen from the blood to avoid the bends. Not sure if it would be painless either.

Christ Perseus, you sure know how to rain on someone's parade. I thought I had it all figured out. A nice furnished room, a bit of music (they can choose) and a farewell beer (again their choosing). Slowly the room is emptied of oxygen and he starts to feel a bit light-headed and sleepy. No rush, no anxiety etc. He lays down, goes to sleep and dies... What a nice way to go.
And you certainly don't want him to have the bends! The mask thing kinda freaks you out... I know I'd freak out the moment you get the mask on and you know it is time to die. As you see; I am a humanist.

OK you can release nitrogen in a non pressurised room although you would probably need a whole cylinder and an evacuation fan. People get killed accidentaly through nitrogen (and argon) leaks in a similar way because they really don't know about it, they just pass out. That's what makes large scale nitrogen leaks dangerous in enclosed spaces, ironically because its not poisionous and so the body doesn't react and send out the alarm signals.

Interestingly you would get the same effect venting a hydrogen fuelled car exhaust back into the compartment (only H20 and N2 is exhausted to any extent). A catalyst gasoline fuelled car would emit the same compounds with a CO2 scrubber attached, perhaps a caustic soda, soda lime or quicklime canister.

Hope I'm not giving people ideas.

Why kill? I forget the father's name down in Texas that was executed, and then shortly after it turned out that he was innocent after all. That's really good. Taking away from an innocent person what you simply cannot give back- their life. How brave! And he died because of incompetent investigators. There's "Dallas CSI" for ya.

So, why kill? I say labor camps. And it's beneficial to everyone involved. The prisoner doesn't die. The prison makes money from his product. In the end the prisoner sucks less tax dollars from us, thus becoming self-sufficient. Yeah, yeah. I know. There is always the chance that the innocent will be imprisoned solely as a labor source. Hey, it's like that already with the mental health facilities. They pick people up off the street, declare them mentally ill, then hold them until their insurance is emptied.

And no 03, I'm not going to research it for ya, you can Google like the rest of us!

Some pointers:

1) If you put them to work, you'll eventually find that their punishment isn't much of a punishment at all. Most regular people in the world work and live under far worse conditions. Putting these guys through utter hell will bring a law suit, sympathy and eventually a whole load of them will get compensation and walk free.

2) I think there should be a newer and more surefire way of deciding what is an open and shut case.

3) "Give them another chance" my ass. Many of their victims never had a second chance. Why should we waste money on these guys' rehab? Seriously, any life sentence that is completely without doubt really ought to be an automatic death. I'm with MontyB here.

4) "It doesn't work" is a stupid excuse when you're talking about the odd case where it didn't work out. If that's the logic you'll follow, I suppose school doesn't work because schools will always produce some level of idiots who never learned a thing. I suppose all seatbelts should be considered failures because sometimes it is the cause of death in crashes. You get the idea. Punishment doesn't work? Yes it does. Drug dealing carries the death sentence in Malaysia and Singapore. And it is enforced. They have a far smaller drug problem than countries that cry for sympathy and rehab.

What's up with the firing squad idea? I say chuck them over a cliff and save the bullet.
Or do what the North Koreans do: use them as live practice.