Somalia....But this was not a "Peace Treaty". This is not Israels offer. It was a speech that made clear that after negotitations a Palestinian state is an opprtunity. The Palestinians can now come, negotiate, and probably get a better deal. If they rally want to. So I hope that ansaweres some of your question somalia.

Also as far as the right of return when Neanyahu says their will be a Palestinian state I think that solves the issue. It means they can bring in the rgefugees. Surely you dont expect us to have a Palestinian state next to us and have milions of them inside ourcountry as well?!

Thats ok I don't think anyone believes this was a serious offer anyway, I am sure that had the Palestinians agreed there would have been more stipulations to ensure they couldnt agree.

Or in other words I do not believe that Israel is negotiating in good faith any more than the Palestinians are.

So far every singe compromise was made by Israel. I mean since 1948.

I have no doubt you believe that however I think fewer and fewer others do.

The simple reality is that no country is going to accept not having a military, having no control of its air space and continually losing land as settlements "naturally grow", seriously no one is buying this as a viable option so it is hardly a "compromise".

But like I said before its just bargaining in bad faith to try and drop the ball in the Palestinian court especially since it is designed so they have no option but reject the proposal.

Originally Posted by SHERMAN

Somalia....But this was not a "Peace Treaty". This is not Israels offer. It was a speech that made clear that after negotitations a Palestinian state is an opprtunity. The Palestinians can now come, negotiate, and probably get a better deal. If they rally want to. So I hope that ansaweres some of your question somalia.

Also as far as the right of return when Neanyahu says their will be a Palestinian state I think that solves the issue. It means they can bring in the rgefugees. Surely you dont expect us to have a Palestinian state next to us and have milions of them inside ourcountry as well?!


So far every singe compromise was made by Israel. I mean since 1948.

I will echo MontyB on this. That maybe your opinion and perhaps the opinion of every single Isreali, but nobody outside of Isreal shares this view, not even the US.

Any peace treaty with stipulaions that stripe the Palestineans of the basic right of self-defense in not a peace treaty, its a demand of surrender. And I think Netenyahu knows this all too well.

Isreal is going to have do better, this is dead in the water.

VIEWER
that is one of the reasons they won't have any country in the near/distant future....

Neither will Isreal unless it changes it ways, Isreal is sitting on a time-bomb. This is a increasingly dangerous world, and there are many unstable groups who would destroy half the planet just to see Isreal obliterated as well. Unless Isreal changes it ways and attempts to truly defuse the Muslim world (that means a peace treaty with the Palestineans) one of these crazy groups is going acquire and detonate a WMD in Tel Aviv. Dont be arrogent to think it couldnt happen, most Americans didnt think 9-11 would happen despite all the warning signs. And these groups hate Isreal far more than they hate us. The longer Isreal delays the greater the chance something truly terrible is going to happen, the clock is ticking.

Opinion outside Israel is worthless as far as the survival of Israel is concerned. The Israelis know that in the last resort they must rely only upon themselves.

So far, the only solution acceptable to their opponents is that the Israelis should roll over and stop breathing.

Until that policy changes, and it dates officially from the 1920's , the Israelis will continue to defend their corner as they feel necessary; they have little choice in the matter but to stay strong, even though much of the world would find it most convenient to sell them down the river.

Lecturing the Israelis on how to handle their Middle Eastern opponents is like trying to teach your grandma how to suck eggs.

They have drawn a common-sense line in the sand, all things can possibly spring from that point.

Originally Posted by Del Boy

Opinion outside Israel is worthless as far as the survival of Israel is concerned. The Israelis know that in the last resort they must rely only upon themselves.

So far, the only solution acceptable to their opponents is that the Israelis should roll over and stop breathing.

Until that policy changes, and it dates officially from the 1920's , the Israelis will continue to defend their corner as they feel necessary; they have little choice in the matter but to stay strong, even though much of the world would find it most convenient to sell them down the river.

Lecturing the Israelis on how to handle their Middle Eastern opponents is like trying to teach your grandma how to suck eggs.

They have drawn a common-sense line in the sand, all things can possibly spring from that point.

where is the damn +REP button?

Originally Posted by MontyB

The simple reality is that no country is going to accept not having a military, having no control of its air space

It's been done before.

Originally Posted by Del Boy

So far, the only solution acceptable to their opponents is that the Israelis should roll over and stop breathing.

Isn't that the truth? It's the real reason why all efforts fail.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

It's been done before.

Where has it been done before?
What country in existence today has:
1) Agreed to no effective defence of its borders.
2) Given away control of its own air space.
3) Allowed another country to expand "naturally" into its territory?

I read from other that Israel is "compromising" but compromise is measured in action rather than talk, it is not a compromise for me to sell you my house under the condition that if my family expands I will take over rooms as I see fit and by the way you are not allowed anything that might be a threat to me nor can you use the driveway.

In the end a compromise is not about what you are prepared to give up or "loan" but what BOTH parties are prepared to accept and no one in their right mind will accept a bad deal and Israel is counting on that fact to maintain the status quo.

Neither will Isreal unless it changes it ways, Isreal is sitting on a time-bomb. This is a increasingly dangerous world, and there are many unstable groups who would destroy half the planet just to see Isreal obliterated as well. Unless Isreal changes it ways and attempts to truly defuse the Muslim world (that means a peace treaty with the Palestineans) one of these crazy groups is going acquire and detonate a WMD in Tel Aviv. Dont be arrogent to think it couldnt happen, most Americans didnt think 9-11 would happen despite all the warning signs. And these groups hate Isreal far more than they hate us. The longer Isreal delays the greater the chance something truly terrible is going to happen, the clock is ticking.

Your issue is that you think if Palestinians had an independent state than Hammas wouldent do somthing like that. You basically understand as much about the muslim world as I do about maine biology(Not a lot).

What makes me laugh is that you continure to ignore the fact that even before 1967 the PLO conducted terro attacks on Israel, while what you call Palestine was infact occupied by Jordan and Egypt. Unless the Palestinians realize Israel is an actuall country and they cant just up and make it go away peace is unachieveable.

You still haven't answered my question SHERMAN.

Originally Posted by SHERMAN

Your issue is that you think if Palestinians had an independent state than Hammas wouldent do somthing like that. You basically understand as much about the muslim world as I do about maine biology(Not a lot).

What makes me laugh is that you continure to ignore the fact that even before 1967 the PLO conducted terro attacks on Israel, while what you call Palestine was infact occupied by Jordan and Egypt. Unless the Palestinians realize Israel is an actuall country and they cant just up and make it go away peace is unachieveable.

Reality says that Hammas will not go away, but if there is recognition and equal rights for the Palestinians - then Hammas will have less of a recruitment base. I'm sure that most Palestinians just want to enjoy their lives, be treated with respect & do the best that they can. The current situation is that they can't, they are treated as second class citizens and prevented from being able to succeed; this breeds resentment and hostility - as you sow, so shall you reap.

I agree with you - peace is unachievable, whilst the Palestinians refuse to recognise the State of Israel and whilst Israel persists in delivering its Final Solution to this problem. We can sit about and argue who did what to whom - that is history, but we're talking about the future here. History is a great teacher and one lesson we should all have learned by now is - "Keep doing what you've always done and you will always get the same results", interestingly a slight variation on this statement is one of the definitions of insanity.

Rant over, Israel has a right to exist & the Palestinians have a right to live, sinve Israel won't let them be anyhting but second class citizens - it'll have to be a 2 state solution, sooner or later someone bigger will have to step into the playpen and bang heads together if the 2 kids won't play niceley.