Mercinaries/Soldiers of Fortune - Page 2


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View Poll Results :Mercs.
Yes they are cheap and effective 6 33.33%
Depends 9 50.00%
No, you shouldnt go to war for money 3 16.67%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

 
March 2nd, 2012   #11
42RM
 
Stop playing your stupid video games and take a look at the real world how profesionele soldiers handle these tasks.

You are 16 years old and have no experience in this. Listen and learn mate - Listen and learn!
 
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March 3rd, 2012   #12
Padre
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42RM
Stop playing your stupid video games and take a look at the real world how profesionele soldiers handle these tasks.

You are 16 years old and have no experience in this. Listen and learn mate - Listen and learn!
I agree, learn from these guys:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Ir...Navy_personnel


 
March 4th, 2012   #13
The Pilgrim
 
PMCs are a major problem in that they are a threat to state sovereignty as they threaten the role of the state in overseeing its armed forces. They also have major legality issues that need to be addressed, threaten democracy, and aid in continuing the influence of multinational companies in the third world.

There are major problems with the legality of private companies and how they operate in countries where they are deployed. One example pertains to Iraq in 2004 when Blackwater employees entered into the city of Fallujah and “under the pretense of looking for terrorists, they carried out nighttime raids, mistreated women and children, and tortured and murdered local men and teenage boys.” Due to this, the local Iraqis took the law into their own hands and killed the Blackwater employees. However, whether one agrees with what the Iraqi people did or not, what occurred would have been the only justice the employees received for their crimes.

Private companies and their personnel are not “subject to strict regulations that determine to whom they are ultimately accountable.” Private corporations only have to go as far as declarations of intent in which they “maintain that they instruct their personnel to respect national laws and international human rights standards.” Even if major crimes are done, the state cannot do anything as mercenaries enjoy significant protection. “In passing Coalition Provisional Authority Order 17 of June 2003, the Iraqi provisional government granted exemption from prosecution to all personnel action on behalf of the coalition- including PMC employees.” This allows for PMCs to go about and do literally whatever they please, without fear of any consequences whatsoever and could potentially have the employees do things that they wouldn’t have done so before if they were under the law, like torturing and killing civilians for example.

Private military corporations threaten democracy because they are not accountable to anyone and can do as they please. By not having any accountability, private companies undermine democratic institutions. One of the many roles of government is “to maintain security, which includes democratic control over the use of force.” However, PMCs undermine this because citizens do not have any influence over the services offered by PMCs. For example, “The standards that govern the military, the police, customs officials, border guards, and state intelligence agencies do not apply at all to contracts given to PMCs.” Due to citizens having no control over the actions of private companies, democracy is put on the line because in a democratic society, there is a need for checks and balances on all forms of power. By not having this, PMCs are able to go and do as they please due to having no restrictions and, as was noted earlier, this could lead to potential problems.

In conclusion, PMCs are a threat on multiple levels and need to be dealt with. Most pressingly are the legal issues and the international community as well as governments within nations need to establish a new classification in their laws specifically for the employees of PMCs so that they will be held liable for any crimes committed. PMCs, without a doubt, need massive reform as to lead to a better society at large.
 
March 4th, 2012   #14
Clinkerbuilt
 
 
Very loaded issue. And not a simple one.

On the one hand, mercenaries - and trust me, PMCs are indeed mercenaries - are notoriously hard to control, and are fully capable of doing far more harm than good. Just look at Blackwater/Xe/whatever-they're-calling-themselves-this-week in Iraq.

OTOH, quietly dropping a few million bucks to a "reliable" (and yes, I am fully aware of how flexible that term can be) PMC to go into "Country X" to aid "Faction Y" against "Group Z" can be far more preferable than asking your own government and people to commit to the sacrifices necessary to reap unclear rewards by deploying national forces to a conflict zone (CZ).

Gripping Hand? Mercs can have a faster response time, in limited situations, than conventional forces, but at the cost of staying power -- mercenary units are, by definition, ad hoc in nature, and are ill-equipped to prevent their "employees" from saying "This is too hard! I didn't sign up for this! I quit!", and going home in mid-combat, which happened to Executive Outcomes at the Soyo battle...Then again, EO survived that incident handily, and went on to accomplish far more than the UN in Sierra Leone.

Overall, for whatever reason, good or ill, mercenaries are far more accepted now than at any time in the last 60-ish years, and anyone reading this who is in an actual uniform and may be deploying to a CZ where PMC's are present, needs to think about how their presence will impact their mission....because they will.

Finally, the idea that mercenaries pose a threat to national sovereignty and/or 'democracy' is frankly ludicrous -- "nations", as we currently understand the term, did not exist before 1648AD and the generally-negative perception of mercenaries (N. Machiavelli aside) only dates from roughly 1800-1820. Any nation with a reasonably competent military is in no danger from any PMC -- the worst a PMC could do would be to either act as the main-force in an attempted coup d' etat, launch a raid, or start assisting a guerrilla force...which last, would be committing political suicide if it came out that they were employing mercs in the first place...which doesn't mean that said groups won't train at a PMC's school.....

Last edited by Clinkerbuilt; March 4th, 2012 at 22:41.. Reason: Add additional content
 
March 4th, 2012   #15
LtStryker
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42RM
Stop playing your stupid video games and take a look at the real world how profesionele soldiers handle these tasks.

You are 16 years old and have no experience in this. Listen and learn mate - Listen and learn!
I see the point that you guys are making, however, I do not agree with that point. True, I am 16. I am here to learn opinions other than mine and to gain understanding on international military issues. I am frankly surprised that a person would be shut down because of their age for putting forth an opinion on a forum where opinions are asked for.
 
March 5th, 2012   #16
Big_Z
 
 
RnderSafe laying it down. That brings back memories.


Infantry leads......
 
March 5th, 2012   #17
42RM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LtStryker
I see the point that you guys are making, however, I do not agree with that point. True, I am 16. I am here to learn opinions other than mine and to gain understanding on international military issues. I am frankly surprised that a person would be shut down because of their age for putting forth an opinion on a forum where opinions are asked for.
Don’t take it personally my young friend, this is the warrior's way of speaking - we often say what we think without further ado. It’s not lack of respect - it's just the way we are. It's a tough world and a tough job we do. It requires tough men and we are probably not the best educationists. Just shake it off. It won’t be the last time you get shot down.
 
March 5th, 2012   #18
The Pilgrim
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clinkerbuilt
Snip---Finally, the idea that mercenaries pose a threat to national sovereignty and/or 'democracy' is frankly ludicrous---snip.
PMCs threaten state sovereignty because they threaten the state’s monopoly on "the use of force". In the German Parliament, the conservative faction submitted a proposal in 2004 which stated that the privatization of the military “could lead to a fundamental shift” between a nation’s armed forces and its government as “the state’s monopoly on force could be called into question or even possibly eradicated.” By bringing PMCs into the picture, it creates a “hollowing out of the state,” where the military itself can become weakened due to its reliance upon private organizations to do things such as gather intelligence.
 
March 5th, 2012   #19
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LtStryker
I see the point that you guys are making, however, I do not agree with that point. True, I am 16. I am here to learn opinions other than mine and to gain understanding on international military issues. I am frankly surprised that a person would be shut down because of their age for putting forth an opinion on a forum where opinions are asked for.

You are unfortunately a victim of your youth and lack of experience. Opinions are like a**holes...you see where this is going.

Among soldiers, experience is far more respected than an opinion. You have to understand that most of our "opinions" are based off of our experiences...If you don't have it then don't expect to be taken seriously. We are in the business of killing and being killed...So when a veteran speaks of how things are...it's usually a good cue for you young strapping bucks to listen up.
 
March 5th, 2012   #20
LtStryker
 
 
hooyah, understood
 



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