About MCO question.
|December 21st, 2005||#1|
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MCO question. info
Can a Marine Corps NCO (E4/E5) bring a non rate (E1/E2/E3) to attention if the situation warrants it for purposes of correction?
Correction meaning he has done something wrong and needs a good chewing on.
One of our NCOs and a non rate say they have been told by either a SNCO or officer that no, an NCO can not bring a troop to attention. When I posed this same question to SNCOs that I know they say that it can be done. No one can reference the MCO or anything that will say one way or the other.
I am wondering if this is another of those situation that is like the "hands in the pockets". (It is an unwritten order that you do not put your hands in your pockets because it looks crappy). Can anyone shed some light on the subject? I would need a reference to a MCO or some such so I can be sure to tell those in my shop where I got my information from and to put any and all doubts to rest.
P.S. Hello all, it has been awhile and I will get aroubnd to reading and catching up.
|December 21st, 2005||#2|
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Not sure about the Marines but in the Army you sure as hell could.
"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental." - John Steinbeck
|December 21st, 2005||#3|
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Well I sure as he** got locked up by Cpl's and Sgt's when I was not an NCO. And I've put junior Marines (I hate the freakin term non-rate. They are Marines and rate whatever the Corps allows them) at attention as an NCO. This issue never came up. Why should a Marine NCO need a SNCO or Officer to put any swingin richard junior to him/her at attention.
"Lcpl Jones lock your body."
"Cpl. Smith your not a SNCO I don't have to."
Nope that ain't flyin. Follow my logic.
If this was true then.
An NCO could not put a formation at attention
An NCO acting as Cpl or Sgt of the Guard could not require a sentry report at the position of attention.
Sounds like you have a few sea lawyers in your shop. I look at it as a lawful order.
If an NCO orders you to a position of attention and you refuse there are couple of articles of the UCMJ he could run on you.
Sgt. Rafael Peralta ,United States Marine Corps
Company A, 1st Bn, 3rd Marine Regt, 3rd Marine Divison
We will never forget your valor and sacrifice.
Semper Fi !
|December 21st, 2005||#4|
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Platoon Sergeants always called the platoon or squad to attention before marching the young troops to anywhere on base. Work details, Morning and Noon formation, raising and or lowering the flag. If someone outranks you, err on the side of caution and snap to when he/she says to.
“War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.”
—John Stuart Mill
|December 21st, 2005||#5|
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Well that is my philosophy as well. In my Warrant it says that "all those of lesser grade render obedience to appropriate orders" (not sure if that is verbatim. Been a while since I looked at my Warrant). It seems to me that it would be an appropriate order. Two MSgts, 2 SSgts, my Plt Sgt, and all but one NCO in the shop say the same thing I do. If you are junior to the person "locking you on" then you should do so. I have looked high and low and talked to as many knowledgeable people as I can and have yet to find a reference for or against except in the MCO referencing hazing. I will keep looking. Thanks for the input.
|December 21st, 2005||#6|
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i know me saying anything has little credibility for being a junior Marine. but i think it all depends on my shop, b/c if someone is giving me an ass chewing and tells me to go to attention, then that NCO needs to be locked on. we had some NCO tell a junior Marine to snap to attention and that NCO got "locked on" by the SNCOIC so it all depends on the shop in my experience. but me, if some CPL or SGT started chewing me out for something and they werent from my squadron at all, i wouldnt give him the POA. he would just have to tell my SNCO that i wouldnt, thats just me though
\"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don\'t have that problem.\" Ronald Reagan 1985
|December 21st, 2005||#7|
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Hazing? Some one is refering to it as hazing. Gimmie a freakin break!
I don't see how anyone could construe requiring a Marine to come to the position of attention while being spoken too (chewed out) by a Marine of Senior rank as hazing. Especially since the position of attention is included in the drill manuel, EST and Guidebook for Marines and is used daily.
Further if this was hazing then SNCO's and Officers would not be exempt from being charged as well.
What the clowns at 8th and I got caught doing in the 90's was hazing. This ain't.
|December 22nd, 2005||#9|
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Hehe, No they were not referring to it as hazing. I said the only reference I found anywhere about "berating" a troop was in the hazing policy. Won't go into details but if I call a Marine to attention and he or she does not go to attention then I personally will counsel that Marine for disobeying a direct or appropriate order. Then if he or she has a complaint they can take it up in a Request Mast if they choose to do so. That is me and I have not come across that situation yet. The liklihood of me calling one of my Marines to attention is small anyway.
If I want their attention I have my ways of getting their 100% undivided attention instead of calling them to attention. But when worded that way, doesn't it make sense to call a Marine to "attention" when you want their whole undivided attention?
|December 22nd, 2005||#10|
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Indeed Marine it does make sense and I for one think you are doing the right thing for your troops. The military needs and has always needed NCO's to do the right thing to keep straight.