Originally Posted by Infern0

in saying that, you can say clinton is a murderer, but cant say bush is stupid?

I think you can say Bush is stupid. I don't think many people argue that he's not the sharpest knife that's ever entered the White House.
As for the Clinton being a murderer... it's not like everyone took it without question. I felt that would only be significant if there could be a comparison made to fatalities of people who worked for other administrations.

I think we're okay.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

I think you can say Bush is stupid. I don't think many people argue that he's not the sharpest knife that's ever entered the White House.
As for the Clinton being a murderer... it's not like everyone took it without question. I felt that would only be significant if there could be a comparison made to fatalities of people who worked for other administrations.

I think we're okay.

I agree.

Sometimes an insult isn't meant as to be offensive but simply as the most accurate description to the Subject. For example why do people call Bush "Stupid"?

Here is the evidence:

He struggles with basic English (this is not a demonstration of low intelligence per se, but it does give him the appearance of being dumb), He routinely makes very poor decisions, he is fiercely anti-intellectual, he is both arrogant and stubborn, he is uninformed, and he is completely seperated from present day reality.

That there is documented fact, as said by him who have either worked with him or for him, even Bush himself has admitted to at least several of these. Based on this isn't it fair to at least suggest that he is stupid. Its like calling Bill Clinton a gigolo. Now I support Bill Clinton, I think he was a good president. But even I can admit that he IS a gigolo. (The only women he doesn't try and sleep with is his wife).

An insult cannot be an insult if it is true.

Another example. I once got a wrist slap by a Mod for calling Cheney a "Chickenhawk". I still maintain that was very unfair mod edit. Why? Look at the definition:

Chickenhawk: Chickenhawk (also chicken hawk and chicken-hawk) is a political epithet used in the United States to criticize a politician, bureaucrat, or commentator who strongly supports a war or other military action, but has never personally been in a war, especially if that person actively avoided military service when of draft age.

Doesn't that accurately describe Dick Cheney?

A very vocal supporter...Check
Has never been in a war...Check
Actively Avoided Military Service...Check.

Those are irrefutable facts, even Cheney doesn't deny this. So why is it considered a rule violation, if the description is accurate.

Originally Posted by pixiedustboo

Have I been a bad girl in the political forums?

Ahahahah... thats not the case!

Did President Clinton use bad judgement in certain areas? Yes. Does that make him a bad President? No.
Is President Bush a great communicator? No. Does that mean he's dumb? No.

We really shouldn't move around the Forum starting political discussions. It's just not good form and bound to draw fire. The Political OPINION thread will re-open when it has been cleaned up and everyone clears their head and tones down their attitudes. Discussions concerning personal opinions will be policed closer as to whether they are presented as fact or out of sheer partison hatred. All in all, there will be more useful information and less personal attacks tolerated.

I love how we kinda started our own thread...LOL

hey, the "other news" thread was moved under general chit chat, but it is still locked. Could one of the mods unlock please? Danka.

Originally Posted by Missileer

Did President Clinton use bad judgement in certain areas? Yes. Does that make him a bad President? No.
Is President Bush a great communicator? No. Does that mean he's dumb? No.

We really shouldn't move around the Forum starting political discussions. It's just not good form and bound to draw fire. The Political OPINION thread will re-open when it has been cleaned up and everyone clears their head and tones down their attitudes. Discussions concerning personal opinions will be policed closer as to whether they are presented as fact or out of sheer partison hatred. All in all, there will be more useful information and less personal attacks tolerated.

I stated that badly but that was precisely the point I was driving at.

Saying "X" is a Idiot/chickenhawk/whatever shouldn't be automatically be interpreted as an insult/rule violation right at face value. You mods are smart, you ought to know when someone is trying to make a legit argument using powerful language and when a person is trying to give a hate speech. Hate speeches never have any intellectual depth to them.

Originally Posted by Donkey

It sucks because I really wanted to make a comment about New Zealand Pizza!!!

So did I since I must be INSANE

Mmarsh, I think you missed my point.
I guess you're allowed to say what you think about the man but that doesn't mean I agree with you. I said he's not the sharpest knife to become President but that doesn't mean he's a complete idiot either.
What I'm trying to say is keep yourselves open to other people's opinions.
You misunderstood it when I said, "You can say Bush is stupid." I meant that "you have the right to call him stupid, even though I don't agree with you."
I don't think he's great, but I don't think he's the demon that people always try to portray him to be.
I'm just trying to find some middle ground here because we are so polarized. And believe me mmarsh, it's not always easy thinking like a civilian again. Some of the guys here know that I'm having a horrid time adjusting back to civilian life. The worlds are very different and there is simply no way anyone who has not served could know what it's like to be military.
Also I would like to say that although I am highly critical of so many things that Clinton did, to jump to conclusions about him being a murderer is too harsh. We need a comparison data with what happened to staff working for other administrations to draw a concrete conclusion. I am not unfamiliar with the knowledge that the closer to power you get, the higher the risks are and the value of human life fluctuates violently. One minute you could be absolutely invaluable, the next the ones in power want you as the latest addition to the new shopping mall's north western cement foundation block. So it may not just be Clinton's administration with a high death toll.
Let's keep our stuff in perspective and let's try to at least understand where the other views are coming from.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

You mods are smart, you ought to know when someone is trying to make a legit argument using powerful language and when a person is trying to give a hate speech. Hate speeches never have any intellectual depth to them.

I don't know mmarsh, A. Hitler sure convinced a lot of people with his vendetta against the Jewish people across Europe. He was also a pretty good speaker, or so I hear.