I just hope Colombia doesn't fall to the communists as well. They still have a guerrilla movement in there don't they? Although they've been forgetting about communism for a while now.

I think FARC is to involved in the drug trade right to be much of a threat to the gov. controlled areas. They are already control the rural coca areas and haven't made any major moves toward urban areas in awhile.

Why would it be a big deal for China to have bases set up in South America, what would they use it for, strategically it has no importance.

Because it gives an affirmed communist nation a toe hold in this hemisphere. In a region that has several Communist/Marxist leaning goverments. Correa in Ecuador, Morales in Boliva, Chavez in Venezuala, Ortega in Nicaruaga. There are also several psuedo marxist guerilla movements. Tupac Amuroa, FARC, Zapatista's and others in the region.

Chavez and his cronies especially Ortega are Castro's lap dogs. They would like nothing better than to export guerilla movements caste in the image of revolution across the length and breadth of Latin America.

The Chinese are the last of the late great communist nations and the most likely to support, both financally and with material a communist type movement, if for no other reason than to give the US a pain in the rear.

Originally Posted by 03USMC

Because it gives an affirmed communist nation a toe hold in this hemisphere. In a region that has several Communist/Marxist leaning goverments. Correa in Ecuador, Morales in Boliva, Chavez in Venezuala, Ortega in Nicaruaga. There are also several psuedo marxist guerilla movements. Tupac Amuroa, FARC, Zapatista's and others in the region.

Chavez and his cronies especially Ortega are Castro's lap dogs. They would like nothing better than to export guerilla movements caste in the image of revolution across the length and breadth of Latin America.

The Chinese are the last of the late great communist nations and the most likely to support, both financally and with material a communist type movement, if for no other reason than to give the US a pain in the rear.

The countries that you have mentioned will be Socialist/Communist regardless if China is there or not, they will continue to recieve weapons and training from Russia and other former Eastern block countries, this may be a complete challenge for Russian influence versus ours. Again there is no strategic importance for China in this part of the world, they know if they stir the water so to speak too much that the U.S will do everything within our power to hand out even more capable weapons and support to countries like Taiwan, Vietnam and Thailand just to name a few. I personnaly feel that Chavez`s days are numbered, there is alot of disgruntled officers serving in the military that do not like the call for a Socialistic society, we already know that the his people shot down his vote. Castro is on his death bed so things will change in Cuba as well. Also one should look at the possibilities that we could gain in this part of the world, Brazil, Argentina just to name a few. The Chinese communist system should be careful, more and more of their people are getting better education and that may not be a good thing for them in the long run.

Or the possibilities of what can be lost in the region in terms of semi-democratic states such as Chile, Peru, Columbia, Argentina etc. If the communist leaning states are able to get a reliable allie (China) to supply a covert arming of Marxist Guerilla movements into other countries. Ala Che.

The former Soviet and Warsaw pact countries aren't reliable. They aren't for the most part solvent enough to support a guerilla war/wars in this hemisphere. Nor do I imagine they care. China can and might.

You are old enough to remember Daniel Ortega's first go around as El Presidente of Nicaruaga.So you should remember how his Sandinista movement moved through-out Central America. Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala and Chiapas. And the expense incurred both in world opinion and national prestige that the US suffered.


The question now is do we want that to happen again. If not then we say nothing to China and the tin pot commies down south and hope we don't see red bandannas and AK toting, sandel wearing members of some jacked up Peoples Liberation Army del Mexico on the Rio Bravo.

There is a little strategic importance because the Chinese control both ends of the canal now a base in Ecuador could be used in a supported way. I think Chinese forces would be welcome in Venezuela and soon Ecuador add in parts of Panama then throw in Nicaragua. Bolivia is land locked but soon China will be interested in there natural gas its only a matter there need for gas/oil is second to the United States only and growing.

This is a little taste of what China is doing in Africa its a little dated but useful.

Which African countries has China sold weapons to?

Between 1955 and 1977, Le Monde reports, China sold $142 million worth of military equipment to Africa, and the pace of sales has picked up significantly since then. The Congressional Research Service reports China's arms sales to Africa made up 10 percent of all conventional arms transfers to the continent between 1996 and 2003. They include:

• Sudan. China has sold the Islamic government in Khartoum weapons and $100 million worth of Shenyang fighter planes, including twelve supersonic F-7 jets, according to the aerospace industry journal Aviation Week and Space Technology. Experts say any military air presence exercised by the government—including the helicopter gunships reportedly used to terrorize civilians in Darfur—comes from China.
• Equatorial Guinea. China has provided military training and Chinese specialists in heavy military equipment to the leaders of the tiny West African nation, whose oil reserves per capita approach and may exceed those of Saudi Arabia.
• Ethiopia and Eritrea. China sold Ethiopia and its neighbor, Eritrea, an estimated $1 billion worth of weapons before and during their border war from 1998 and 2000.
• Burundi. In 1995, a Chinese ship carrying 152 tons of ammunition and light weapons meant for the army of Burundi was refused permission to dock in Tanzania.
• Tanzania. According to the Overseas Development Institute, China has delivered at least thirteen covert shipments of weapons labeled as agricultural equipment to Dar-es-Salaam.
• Zimbabwe. The autocratic government of Robert Mugabe ordered twelve FC-1 fighter jets and 100 military vehicles from China in late 2004 in a deal worth $200 million, experts say. In May 2000, China reportedly swapped a shipment of small arms for eight tons of Zimbabwean elephant ivory, Taylor writes in his report. In addition, the U.S.-backed International Broadcast Bureau says China provided a radio jamming device to Zimbabwe that allows Mugabe's regime to block broadcasts of independent news sources like Radio Africa from a military base outside Harare. China also donated the blue tiles that decorate the roof of Mugabe's house.

This is why I don't want them in South America all it takes is a few large arms deals and then they have there foot hold. This is just a few items there are much more to be found and added to this. What I'm saying is if China can be dirty in Africa what stops them from doing in South America? I think we should commit to both Colombia and Peru and let the spreading end right where it is. From northern Peru we would have easy reach to Venezuela, Colombia would allow overflights for us and being Peru we can monitoring Ecuador closely. Going out on a limb a bit from southern Peru we could monitor Bolivia, Chavez's other new puppet state. And it's a win, win situation being in Peru because we could stop the flow of drugs which would only help out country and other parts of the world at the same time.
For Peru what would it take a squadron or two of shinny new F-16s, free trade agreements, help with there natural gas industry. They have one current site producing but more deposits have been found near Ecuador's border so it's an investment too. There's already enough drugs coming from Asia that China does little about now, I assume the second largest drug producing region in the world would be South America. Do we want them there too? Sorry for going in too many direction here but it's complex.

Originally Posted by 03USMC

Or the possibilities of what can be lost in the region in terms of semi-democratic states such as Chile, Peru, Columbia, Argentina etc. If the communist leaning states are able to get a reliable allie (China) to supply a covert arming of Marxist Guerilla movements into other countries. Ala Che.

The former Soviet and Warsaw pact countries aren't reliable. They aren't for the most part solvent enough to support a guerilla war/wars in this hemisphere. Nor do I imagine they care. China can and might.

You are old enough to remember Daniel Ortega's first go around as El Presidente of Nicaruaga.So you should remember how his Sandinista movement moved through-out Central America. Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala and Chiapas. And the expense incurred both in world opinion and national prestige that the US suffered.


The question now is do we want that to happen again. If not then we say nothing to China and the tin pot commies down south and hope we don't see red bandannas and AK toting, sandel wearing members of some jacked up Peoples Liberation Army del Mexico on the Rio Bravo.

With U.S investments in these countries this should boost their economies so that they can handle this type of concern, also get the people above the poverty line and they tend not to listen to the Marxist red banner call to arms.

Ortega for the most part has also been keeping a low profile and I truly wonder what he really thinks of Chavez.

Yes I agree that they will not for the most part support any type of movement at least not out in the open, but they will supply the weapons for bargain prices, I am talking in regards to Russia and Ukraine. Putin will be the one to watch more than China I think, this marriage between Russia and China is already starting to form some cracks due to Russia not wanting to give them the latest and greatest that Russia has to offer in weapons technologies, Friendship only goes so far. Also China`s reputation in the weapons market hasn`t been that spectacular for the most part, they seem to not be able to shake off the made in copy cat China syndrome that they have a reputation for.

Originally Posted by rock45

There is a little strategic importance because the Chinese control both ends of the canal now a base in Ecuador could be used in a supported way. I think Chinese forces would be welcome in Venezuela and soon Ecuador add in parts of Panama then throw in Nicaragua. Bolivia is land locked but soon China will be interested in there natural gas its only a matter there need for gas/oil is second to the United States only and growing.

This is a little taste of what China is doing in Africa its a little dated but useful.

Which African countries has China sold weapons to?

Between 1955 and 1977, Le Monde reports, China sold $142 million worth of military equipment to Africa, and the pace of sales has picked up significantly since then. The Congressional Research Service reports China's arms sales to Africa made up 10 percent of all conventional arms transfers to the continent between 1996 and 2003. They include:

• Sudan. China has sold the Islamic government in Khartoum weapons and $100 million worth of Shenyang fighter planes, including twelve supersonic F-7 jets, according to the aerospace industry journal Aviation Week and Space Technology. Experts say any military air presence exercised by the government—including the helicopter gunships reportedly used to terrorize civilians in Darfur—comes from China.
• Equatorial Guinea. China has provided military training and Chinese specialists in heavy military equipment to the leaders of the tiny West African nation, whose oil reserves per capita approach and may exceed those of Saudi Arabia.
• Ethiopia and Eritrea. China sold Ethiopia and its neighbor, Eritrea, an estimated $1 billion worth of weapons before and during their border war from 1998 and 2000.
• Burundi. In 1995, a Chinese ship carrying 152 tons of ammunition and light weapons meant for the army of Burundi was refused permission to dock in Tanzania.
• Tanzania. According to the Overseas Development Institute, China has delivered at least thirteen covert shipments of weapons labeled as agricultural equipment to Dar-es-Salaam.
• Zimbabwe. The autocratic government of Robert Mugabe ordered twelve FC-1 fighter jets and 100 military vehicles from China in late 2004 in a deal worth $200 million, experts say. In May 2000, China reportedly swapped a shipment of small arms for eight tons of Zimbabwean elephant ivory, Taylor writes in his report. In addition, the U.S.-backed International Broadcast Bureau says China provided a radio jamming device to Zimbabwe that allows Mugabe's regime to block broadcasts of independent news sources like Radio Africa from a military base outside Harare. China also donated the blue tiles that decorate the roof of Mugabe's house.

This is why I don't want them in South America all it takes is a few large arms deals and then they have there foot hold. This is just a few items there are much more to be found and added to this. What I'm saying is if China can be dirty in Africa what stops them from doing in South America? I think we should commit to both Colombia and Peru and let the spreading end right where it is. From northern Peru we would have easy reach to Venezuela, Colombia would allow overflights for us and being Peru we can monitoring Ecuador closely. Going out on a limb a bit from southern Peru we could monitor Bolivia, Chavez's other new puppet state. And it's a win, win situation being in Peru because we could stop the flow of drugs which would only help out country and other parts of the world at the same time.
For Peru what would it take a squadron or two of shinny new F-16s, free trade agreements, help with there natural gas industry. They have one current site producing but more deposits have been found near Ecuador's border so it's an investment too. There's already enough drugs coming from Asia that China does little about now, I assume the second largest drug producing region in the world would be South America. Do we want them there too? Sorry for going in too many direction here but it's complex.

This is where the new global economy will be a major factor in new alliances being formed, I know that it is nothing but a bugger but with countries like China who`s economy are at a all time high they need natural resources and need them badly, they are going to branch out and become friends with countries that we would deem unheard of five years ago, India is in the same boat. We do seem to be forming alliances also in this part of the world with countries that you have mentioned, if we squeeze China around her borders then she will tread lightly, we have alot more power than what people realize when it comes to her economy, if we start playing games with it who are they going to sell their product to, the Europeans, not likely.

Originally Posted by Pale Rider

With U.S investments in these countries this should boost their economies so that they can handle this type of concern, also get the people above the poverty line and they tend not to listen to the Marxist red banner call to arms.

Ortega for the most part has also been keeping a low profile and I truly wonder what he really thinks of Chavez.

Remember this, regardless of the type of goverment be it Communist, Marxist, or Democratic or Dictatorship. In Latin America the Goverments are rife with corruption. The investment dollars do not trickle down to the pobres. They stay with the Rico's. So simply investing only shores up corrupt leaders and gives the Marxists a recruitment pool.

Latin America has no easy answer. But ignoring the a possible ChiCom incursion isn't a road to take.

At the Conference of the Americas Hugo and Ortega were all chummy and parroting each other so niether one should be written off.