Hey guys!

This is my first post on this site... it seems to be right up my alley.

I noticed there isn't much talk about Self-Propelled Anti Aircraft Guns on here. In case some of you don't know what they are - here are a few (pretty cool, IMO) examples:


UK Marksman Anti-Aircraft System






Russian Pantsir S1




US m42 Duster (Retired)





Just a few examples (sorry if the pics are too big!)... I really like these things, SPAAGs just look mean. But yeah, I was wondering if any of you guys had a favorite, an opinion on what one is the best (not of these three, of ANY), or just had anything to say about them.


Just my $0.02, I think the Pantsir S1 is the best from what I've seen and read, the Tunguska M1, Type 87, Gepard and Marksman all seem pretty good, but really similar. The canceled Canadian MMEV seems pretty good, and I hate to say it...but the US seems to be lacking when it comes to these. Only thing I can think of is we thought these guns might have seemed obsolete and went with purely missile based ones, such as the Avenger.

So...any thoughts on these bad boys?

Lookin forward to talkin with ya'll!

My girlfriends father served in the Romanian Army in the Cold War, and he saw a lot of ZSU's during his time. In his opinion, the ZSU could have taken out any helicopter, Soviet or Western, during the Cold War with ease.

The Pantsir and Marksman look pretty cool.

Wow. some nice pics. SAdly I know very little on SPAANGs but I must admit I do like they roles. And they always look very cool.

Why do I think of old WWII aircraft and Panzer I's put together?
Just kidding. I know self-propelled artillery, but never heard of self-propelled anti-air. Nice pics.
The Russian Pantsir looks like something from a comic book or a novel, but if it works, then I know 2 things:
1)Very expensive
2)Very effective

Thanks KoreanSeaboy, yeah SPAAGs make for great pics lol.

And yeah Stealthy...i'd hate to be in a Helicopter and see the tracers from these things coming at me...

OK
Actual purpose of such systems are different to current potential war scenarios. Today any military plan goes as following:
Air supremacy; artillery;invasion... the part as where such would be effective (mainly/mostly) are against Helicopters or aircraft attack defense are not very likely. Any invasion would be first secured by Air supremacy and those vehicles as nice in concept, but vulnerable to Missiles from air and land launched, also Artillery makes them no more valuable, than APC or Howitzer.

I gotta say...that Pantsir S-1 looks a little more valuable than an APC.

Originally Posted by NickV801

I gotta say...that Pantsir S-1 looks a little more valuable than an APC.

What looks- means nothing!
AAMS alone are probably 2% of costs and availability and non-vulnerability...
Nice concept for Cold war, but take a Stinger- job done

1. SPAAGS look awesome, this is a fact.
2. Unfortunately, SPAAGS have never been a large factor in warfare. Generally, they can't make up for lack of air superiority. And, from what I gather, the main instance of really effective AA making up for air superiority was the Syrian SAMS in the Yom Kippur War, and I think those were mostly emplaced missile batteries.

MC Martel, I dont agree mate.

Remember the war between Israel and Egypt? Egypt was successful as its infantry and armor were under an umbrella of SAMs. But when they decided to move up to support their allies who were pounded (Syria I believe), they made a terrible mistake, the Israeli regained air supremacy over their armor and they lost the battle and maybe the whole war...

If the Egyptians had more mobile SAMs to follow their tanks and protect them from aircrafts... Israel history would have been very different, and maybe even shorter.

And remember the 88mm anti aircraft gun the Germans were using in WWII? it wasnt really self propelled... But they used it against tanks in desperation and discovered that their gun was a real tank killer.

It's the same here, many of the modern Self propelled anti aircraft guns/systems can be used to take out all sorts of targets...

exemples:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M163_VADS

A vulcan canon on a light armored vehicle. It's capable of engaging light armor and personnel too... And it's US technology by the way

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starstreak_missile
This one comes with a wonderful thermal camera, giving the armored vehicle using this equipment the ability to engage lightly armored and fast targets if it's necessary... And it can work as some kind of scout to spot enemy units or for surveillance duty...

Well there is always different uses for big guns and missiles in a battlefield, and if you add good radars/observation devices to the mix... You get yourself a hell of a weapon for the modern battlefield...

edit:
got more for you guys, looks like this category is evolving, it might disappear already ^^
http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/starstreak.html

Recently trials have been conducted using this missile against ground targets. The results were surprising and impressive. In brief, the Starstreak darts can each penetrate over a metre of armour (presumably RHA) at a range of 6000m - nearly twice the range of a TOW. While TOW takes 21 seconds to reach 3,750m Starstreak takes less than 5 seconds to reach 6000m.

This "new" class of weapon needs a designation. "HVGM" is what it is, but also for what it does. ADAT has been used -ATAD is Ok-ish, but I like "A4GM"- Anti-Armour/Anti-Aircraft Guided Missile

They have a lot of ideas... They want to add hellfire missiles/hydra rockets etc to the weapon system... Crazy stuff...