OK, here, US tank crew in an Abrams/Leopard 2 against a US tank crew in a Challenger 2, who survives? Who fries?

Originally Posted by Insight

Because that would make the thread even more inane than it already is. The whole discussion is based in school boy fantasy and the overly romantic notions of military equipment propogated through cheap novels and movies. It misses the essence of what turn a bunch of thugs with heavy equipment into a fighting force.

School boy fantasy? If you don't like the thread then dont read it nor reply to it. I bet you're just posting to make a stir in this thread, really mature!

Originally Posted by major liability

T-90? I thought it was a failure next to its western counterparts? The only Russian tanks I'd consider for the top slot are the T-80UM2 Black Eagle and T-95, but there's not enough data available on either to issue a proper judgement.

Oh well. If it's going to be a tie, why not include the Challenger 2? Most advanced armor ever.

No, I was talking about the Japanese-made Type 90.

Originally Posted by Damien435

OK, here, US tank crew in an Abrams/Leopard 2 against a US tank crew in a Challenger 2, who survives? Who fries?

Which ever gets the shot off first. The crew in the M1A2 may be able to do this faster with the x50 FLIR.

You must remember that tanks don't fight alone, they always fight in at least platoons

Originally Posted by Koz

Which ever gets the shot off first. The crew in the M1A2 may be able to do this faster with the x50 FLIR.

What's the maximum zoom on the Challenger IIE's thermal imagers?

Originally Posted by Koz

Which ever gets the shot off first. The crew in the M1A2 may be able to do this faster with the x50 FLIR.

You must remember that tanks don't fight alone, they always fight in at least platoons

Or they try to.

Originally Posted by Doug97

What's the maximum zoom on the Challenger IIE's thermal imagers?

The TOGS II on the Challenger 2 can optical zoom x4 and x11.5. The M1A2SEP can x3 and x10 optical zoom but with the x50 digital zoom. The digital zoom gives a much higher resolution, making IDing targets faster.

Any idea How far can both tanks shoot?

No one really knows, during Desert Storm some Abrams recorded kills from distances that were supposed to be twice that of their true kill range.

Originally Posted by AlexKall

School boy fantasy? If you don't like the thread then dont read it nor reply to it. I bet you're just posting to make a stir in this thread, really mature!

Not at all. I'm bothered by the notion that military operations can be simplified down to some objective calculus of relative technological advantage. It diminishes what we do. Wars are fought by professionals for a reason. If it was merely a matter of "the best widget wins", then it would be a relatively simple endevour that is very easy to predict.

In light of the young minds that frequent this board, I see a small obligation to inject some reality into a very serious business. I do think that is mature, and I'm not being sarcastic which would be in violation of the forum rules, IIRC. (not that it's my place to say either way, just making an observation).