Originally Posted by Doug97

An improved one, anyway.

Yes, well the M1A1 nolonger uses that FCS, the new fleet of D's and AIM's have improved and intergrated FCS's.

I would pick the Leo 2, and the Chally 2 over the abrams anyday but since I like the Leo 2 more than the Chally 2 I have to pick the Leo 2/Abrams over the Chally 2. Sorry to the Brits.

Originally Posted by CanadianCombat

I would pick the Leo 2, and the Chally 2 over the abrams anyday but since I like the Leo 2 more than the Chally 2 I have to pick the Leo 2/Abrams over the Chally 2. Sorry to the Brits.

Why not the M1?

Originally Posted by Cadet Seaman

Yes, well the M1A1 nolonger uses that FCS, the new fleet of D's and AIM's have improved and intergrated FCS's.

The IIE uses a completely different one as well.

Originally Posted by Cadet Seaman

True. Tactic's, Training, and use of the tank are different. Thats why the Brits still use the HESH round, while we prefer the HEAT round.

I know that the M1 and Chally share alot. Chally use the same FCS as the M1A1.

The reason Americans use HEAT and British use HESH isn't tactical, the Challenger's rifled barrell cannot fire HEAT.

Anywho, I think top 10 tanks should look like this. I know I'm going to get flamed for the T-90M being above the M1A1. I didn't include the Type-90 or Chinese Type-98 because I dont know where they should go.
1. Merkava Mk 4
2. Leopard 2A5
3. M1A2SEP
4. Challenger 2
5. Leclerc
6. T-90M
7. M1A1
8. Challenger 1
9. Leopard 2A4
10. T-84

Someone's got to say it.... this thread is stupid. The single biggest factor that would determine the battlefield success of either of these systems is the training and readiness of the crew and the tactical and operational employment of the unit to which they are assigned. Esoteric discussions about which has the better thermal gunsight are completely irrelevent without an assessment of the crew's training and abilities to work as a team.

Well, I think the Leo 2 should sit at the top of the charts!

Originally Posted by Whispering Death

wait, why not make it a 3-way vote?

Because you (the people of Mil-Forums) voted that the Abrams and Leo 2 were ties, so therefor if you believe that one would beat the Challenger 2 you should also agree that the other would do so. What I am seeing here is a lot of "The Leo 2 would win" which makes me question the outcome of the previous vote.

Also, if we did three way then the Leo 2 and Abrams should tie and that means that the Challenger 2 could get by on a technicality.

The agreement that of the previoius election was that these two tanks were essentially the same tank so therefor if one thinks that the Leo 2 is superior to the Challenger 2 they should also agree that the Abrams is superior to the Challenger 2.

And btw, the latest of the "T" tanks was represented by the Chinese Type98/99 (Which is just a more improved Type-90) and it was quite overwhelmingly defeated by the Merkava.

Originally Posted by Insight

Someone's got to say it.... this thread is stupid. The single biggest factor that would determine the battlefield success of either of these systems is the training and readiness of the crew and the tactical and operational employment of the unit to which they are assigned. Esoteric discussions about which has the better thermal gunsight are completely irrelevent without an assessment of the crew's training and abilities to work as a team.

Yes yes yes, you make a good point, now if you could please ignore your statement and imagine if you will that the crew of all the tanks are trained to use the same tactics, went through the same training schools, and are working the same terrain, tank vs. tank. No support elements.

Originally Posted by Koz

The reason Americans use HEAT and British use HESH isn't tactical, the Challenger's rifled barrell cannot fire HEAT.

Anywho, I think top 10 tanks should look like this. I know I'm going to get flamed for the T-90M being above the M1A1. I didn't include the Type-90 or Chinese Type-98 because I dont know where they should go.
1. Merkava Mk 4
2. Leopard 2A5
3. M1A2SEP
4. Challenger 2
5. Leclerc
6. T-90M
7. M1A1
8. Challenger 1
9. Leopard 2A4
10. T-84

Leopard 2A6 doesn't figure in your list - an oversight or a typo?

Originally Posted by Damien435

...........Yes yes yes, you make a good point, now if you could please ignore your statement and imagine if you will that the crew of all the tanks are trained to use the same tactics, went through the same training schools, and are working the same terrain, tank vs. tank. No support elements.

Because that would make the thread even more inane than it already is. The whole discussion is based in school boy fantasy and the overly romantic notions of military equipment propogated through cheap novels and movies. It misses the essence of what turn a bunch of thugs with heavy equipment into a fighting force.