Originally Posted by Big_Z

I wonder who the first country Germany or France is gona call for support if WW3 breaks out? America, The sad/noble part about it is we would fight with them in a heartbeat.Im not sure the same could be said for them.

Themselves and the rest of europe, I bet we'd be on another front.

I dont see them anywhere in Iraq, you have more faith in them than me.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

I'm not gonna pretend that the US, UK or anyone else are holier than thou because they're not, far from it. But at least the US and UK back each other up.

How about during Vietnam where we betrayed the French and let women and children get slaughtered by savage communist at the battle of Dien Bien Phu? I bet you’re too young to remember that, so I will tell you about it. The NVA brought up mortars and heavy artillery and shelled the French city which had civilians in it. The city was completely surrounded by the communist forces. Now, the French flew in paratroopers and fought valiantly, but they were still vastly outnumbered and outgunned so they pleaded for our help. We even wrote up a plan to use tactical nuclear weapons, but we could not get Great Britain’s support so we didn’t follow through. We still had bombers and transports just a few miles away that had more than enough space to airlift the women and children off the battlefield. Heck, the commies even pulled back for a while, presumably to let us evacuate the civilians; some of the NVA went AWOL to get f—ked at a brothel some miles away. We had the opportunity to save French civilians, these innocent noncombatants, but we didn’t. While this was happening, Lyndon B. Johnson said, and I quote: “**** the frogs.” The savage commies overwhelmed the French army and went in raped, pillaged, and murdered throughout the city.

EDIT: Damn. It was LBJ, not FDR...
I dont know what I was thinking.

EDIT 2: Sorry about the foul language.

Pretty good point. Hadn't thought of it. Still, might as well call the kettle black. France is not a strong ally at best.

Indochina is quite the moral dilema. They fought the Japanese in WW2, yet were handed right back to the French rule that they didn't want at all. But a good ally ought to have lent a hand and at least helped get them out of Dien Bien Fu. Anybody know the background on why Johnston was so hostile toward the French?

Yes it's very odd that we didn't help. Perhaps he thought the French could take care of themselves? What's the worst a bunch of uneducated pajama boys can do?

How severely we would be punished for not intervening then....

We did give the French equipment and some finances though.

France and Germany should establish a New Europe I think.

Europe led by Germany and France can compete with USA as superpower.

Originally Posted by ravensword227

How about during Vietnam where we betrayed the French and let women and children get slaughtered by savage communist at the battle of Dien Bien Phu? I bet you’re too young to remember that, so I will tell you about it. The NVA brought up mortars and heavy artillery and shelled the French city which had civilians in it. The city was completely surrounded by the communist forces. Now, the French flew in paratroopers and fought valiantly, but they were still vastly outnumbered and outgunned so they pleaded for our help. We even wrote up a plan to use tactical nuclear weapons, but we could not get Great Britain’s support so we didn’t follow through. We still had bombers and transports just a few miles away that had more than enough space to airlift the women and children off the battlefield. Heck, the commies even pulled back for a while, presumably to let us evacuate the civilians; some of the NVA went AWOL to get f—ked at a brothel some miles away. We had the opportunity to save French civilians, these innocent noncombatants, but we didn’t. While this was happening, Lyndon B. Johnson said, and I quote: “f**k the frogs.” The savage commies overwhelmed the French army and went in raped, pillaged, and murdered throughout the city.

EDIT: Damn. It was LBJ, not FDR...
I dont know what I was thinking.

EDIT 2: Sorry about the foul language.

Look you're right and I never said that the US and UK were saints. But the fact of the matter is that generally there's an air of cooperation between the UK and US and the French generally do their own thing. There's plenty of things that the US has done that its citizens cannot be proud of and you can include the UK in that too. I for one am not proud of much of my nation's past. Anyway the point I originally made was that Chirac is in it for personal glory and I stand by that.

PS bringing my age into a debate shouldn't be considered. I don't see it as a factor and you're assuming I'm a certain age. You may be wrong.

BTW FlyingFrog there's no chance of just Germany and France being able to compete with the US alone. Germany has lost much of it's industrial and economic bite since unification and they'd need at least the UK alongside to have any chance.

http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard...dragonpic3.jpg

That is exactly what will happen if China becomes a superpower. Countries immediately around this "dragon" will be the first on the chopping block. Generally speaking, European countries have taken advantage of China in one way or another, and they know they need America to protect them. And despite how much they dislike America on the outside, they know we have been there for them in the past. I know Germany and France will pull through for us, it just may take some time (like the time it took us to enter WW2).

French and German economies are in shambles! They could never become a superpower!

Please don't really talk like France and Europe were all the same thing.

My country is not anything like France, nor is Poland. It often happens that when the left comes to power in a European country it soon distances itself from the US. When the right is in power, it rather moves closer (Spain makes the case).

The point is French parties act all the same way and nothing much makes any difference.
That's why they are not allies in the proper sense.