Alright see, you don't seem to understand what it means to be a "ally"

France says she is a ally of the US.... then......... the hell? Then it's a betrayal.

Pretend with me here this insane event. North Korea sends arms to Taiwan.... you wouldn't like it!

See, allies help each other, not power their enemies. But maybe I don't understand the Chinese version of an alliance.

Ally? What ally? Bush called the Europe of Germany and France the old Europe, USA is going to have some fun with new beauties like Poland etc.

Oh, maybe France and Germany don't want to be the so-called "allies of USA" at all, they have already had enough with you, they want to do their own bussiness.

So when others don't want to be your ally more, let it go.

If N.Korea wants to sell weapons to Taiwan, then it may do it, but dare they? That's the key issue.

France has their own agenda. I just wish that sabotaging the USA was not part of that agenda. They do seem to work that in whenever they can. I hold nothing against the French people. Its their nations foreign policy that ... puzzles me.

France is only an ally in catastrophic circumstances. You're right. They do have every right to make their own decicions. I just don't agree that their choices are actually helping France.

France and Germany continue to say they are allies with the US. Obviously their actions show otherwise, just like you said, they could give a crap about the US.

You don't have to be allies with the US, but deceit, no, I don't think so.

I just wish that sabotaging the USA

My dear God

Please don't sabotage the France either

France prefers a multi-polar world, not a world dominated by USA

:P Sneaked in your post after mine.

Originally Posted by FlyingFrog

My dear God

Please don't sabotage the France either

France prefers a multi-polar world, not a world dominated by USA

Wouldn't that make them more allied against the United States than allied with? I believe that is the point that people are making.

I think we've pretty much explained it in the best way we can.
It's one of those things that just won't get through.

Originally Posted by FlyingFrog

Ally? What ally? Bush called the Europe of Germany and France the old Europe, USA is going to have some fun with new beauties like Poland etc.

Oh, maybe France and Germany don't want to be the so-called "allies of USA" at all, they have already had enough with you, they want to do their own bussiness.

So when others don't want to be your ally more, let it go.

If N.Korea wants to sell weapons to Taiwan, then it may do it, but dare they? That's the key issue.

France have always been about putting France first. Nothing wrong with that in principle but they do it even when it hurts the self interest of other so-called Allies. France has always been like that throughout the ages. Go back to the Middle ages and the French Kingdom claimed ownership over the English crown for a good 200 years or so.

Fast forward to 1944 where Charles De Gaulle insists that the Free French forces march at the head of the forces that liberate Paris.

Then in 1973 they refuse the UK entry into the then Common Market.

They refuse for their forces to be integrated into the command structure for NATO.

They opposed war with Iraq to protect their own self interests. They don't mind if their Allies take the brunt in the meantime.

I'm not gonna pretend that the US, UK or anyone else are holier than thou because they're not, far from it. But at least the US and UK back each other up. The US really did not have to get actively involved in the European theatre but they did. France were the biggest winners there because no USA in Europe meant that they'd be speaking either German or Russian.

France were dependant on US support to exist 60-65 years ago and they've hated them for it ever since.

I wonder who the first country Germany or France is gona call for support if WW3 breaks out? America, The sad/noble part about it is we would come to their aid in a heartbeat. Im not sure the same could be said for them.