Originally Posted by FlyingFrog

Why should I like or dislike French?

I only know France is doing for her own interests, and nothing wrong with this.

The problem is that I believe that Chirac is doing things for his OWN self interest, not France's.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

The problem is that I believe that Chirac is doing things for his OWN self interest, not France's.

It's true, he's playing to his hard left-wing crowd and bringing down France because of it.

Before some French people criticize the US for imposing their "junk culture" on them, they should fix the socialist-like government they have first.

Well more basic than that.
The rampant Anti-Americanism is simply blinding them from all the obvious things. Really that's the main problem. Chirac of course is not trying to ease it, he's worsening it.

Frog, consider what France would stand to lose if they were to play China like that are the USA. How would you feel about the French if they took every possible opportunity to attack Chinese interests, berate them and belittle them no matter what. How would you feel about France then?

God, from your American point of view, you think France betrays you, but from France's point of view, they think you Americans are betraying them.

USA and France should be equal allies, not like the way USA is doing now, USA treats all her allies as puppets, all of them must listen to USA. France as one of the 5 UNSC members, no way France should follow USA's orders.

You are angry at France, because you "think" you are the master of France.

God, from your Chinese point of view, you think every ally of the US is a "puppet".

And what else do you call France's actions? What is agreeing to take action against Iraq if sanctions are violated, and yet when 17 are, no action is taken?

What is the oil for food scandel, when many UN secruty council members, including French politicians, are grabbing money and oil deals from Saddam? Not to mention one of Chirac's right-hand mans was in on it too.

What is it when French diplomats in Iraq help Iraqi's bypass the sanctions?

What is it when France trys to sell arms to Iraq, what, three months before the invasion?

It's the bribery, Frog. France, as well as others like Germany and Russia, were all in bed with Saddam. It's not as direct and conspiratorial as I may have made it sound, but they were not going to knock down a sweet deal like that.

And as this topic was started on, France continues to go around the world denouncing the US as the devil, huh, pretty hard to make an alliance out of that.

Originally Posted by FlyingFrog

You are angry at France, because you "think" you are the master of France.

I have no such illusions. You might have noticed that many of the people who have been the most outspoken against them in this thread are not American. Why would that be?

But Chocobo_Blitzer, you mentioned alot of what France did with Saddam, but you forgot to mention how much USA "cooperated" with Saddam before First Gulf War, and that famous Donald Ramsfeld smilingly shaking hands wit his ex-buddy Saddam Hossein

I really don't think everyone has right to accuse France at all.

Godofthunder:
Most of those out-spoken dudes on this forum are USA "allies", that's why

You have to put a timeline on these things, Frog. That was when we were worried about Iran, we used the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" approach. Yet Saddam ended up becoming a threat too.

I don't believe Donald shook his hand after that.

It's the fact France continued to deal with Iraq that makes it so bad.

Policies change, just like the US and Britian supported Russia in WWII, they later became bitter enemies. You cannot use past policies to equalize immedidate stances right now.

It's the fact France continued to deal with Iraq that makes it so bad.

Iraq is your USA's enemy, but not an enemy of Frence, nor German, nor Chinese, nor Russian.

You don't like one guy, then how dare you to demand all other people to dislike this guy? Aren't you going a bit too far dictatorshipping I guess?