With the adoption of the Stryker by the U.S. Army, the media portrays this vehicle as a brand new concept. I'm not knocking the Stryker or the Army. I'm just saying that the basis for this system did not start with either the Stryker or the Army. I was a member of the U.S. Marine Corps 2nd Light Infantry Battalion of the Second Marine Division in Panama 89' and Desert Shield/Desert Storm 90'-91'. The LAI Battalions have since been renamed/redesignated as Light Armored Reconnaisance Battalions to better describe their mission which is much the same as the Army's Armored Cav. The LAV-25 was of course derived from the Swiss MOWAG Pirranha and the Canadians began using a variant first in their Grizzly. The LAV-25 is still being used by the Marines today and is a great vehicle. It's extremely quick and mobile. True, the armor isn't going to protect against heavy stuff but we were hit by shrapnel from Artillery and it did it's job. Of course it won't stop a direct hit from Arty but I don't know of what light armored vehicle that will. It's main defence is it's speed and it really shines on open battlefields. During Desert Storm, my Battalion was offered the option of bolt-on applique armor. We turned it down as the additional weight and loss of speed would not be a good offset for what additional protect we would have gained.

I can say this, My Company was sent into Kuwait on a "Pre"G-Day assault to divert Iraqi forces from the breach points, draw out their artillery fire so counter battery radar could pinpoint their locations and reconnoiter any additional breach points. We had 14 Lav's of various variants and 144 men. We were engaged with a Brigade reinforced with tanks for a period of almost 3 days. By the end of Desert Storm, my Company had destroyed 36 tanks, numerous AAA pieces/Artillery pieces and destroyed approximately 1/3 of a Brigade. We didn't lose one LAV although our sister Battalion lost two. Both were fratricide incidents during a running gun battle. One Lav was mistakenly taken out by a Hellfire missile from a A-10 Warthog and the other was lost when it crossed the flight path of a TOW-II missile launched from a LAV-T.

"Known Distance" LAV-25 of Capt Ken Amidon USMC. Company Commander C Company, 2nd LAI BN, 2nd Marine Division in Desert Storm

My personal opinion is that the Army found that Bradley wasn't the Ice Cream Sandwich they thought it was and the 13's in LAVs showed em why.

The LAVs are good when it comes ton invading a desert country where you can use your speed and superior firepower.

But if the enemy had better weapons, and if the terrain was a little harsher... These LAVs would be like mobile coffins...

The LAVs are the way to go in Iraq. That's for sure.

All armored vehicles have limitations. That being said, the LAV has done well everywhere it's seen action to date. That includes Panama in 89'. We ran patrols in about as harsh terrain as you can get and it did well. No vehicle is indestructible or remains so for long. The race between armor and weapons to defeat said armor is ongoing and leapfrogs back and forth. The LAV doesn't have much to begin with. It's assets are it's speed, manueverability, firepower and it's amazingly quiet for it's type. I would say that's achilles heel would be urban enviroments with narrow streets like I ran into in Beirut in 83'.

Yes.
And of course the skills and tactics of the people using the LAV.

If you have the skills to exploit the speed and firepower, you can have very good results. But if you dont have the necessary skills... Heavy armor would be a much better option, as the heavy armor let you survive minor mistakes.

And tell me, can an LAV survive an RPG round?

The LAV as we were set up during Desert Storm would not survive a RPG round. My unit was offered bolt on reactive armor that was ceramic plates containing a explosive charge and shaped like a honey comb. My Commanding Officer turned it down because it would have added too much additional weight. In the open terrain of the Kuwait desert our biggest advantage was our speed. My driver was actually able to hit the gas and we were able move faster than a Sagger Missle could track us. In the mean time, one of my TOW missle gunners took the Sagger Gunner out with a TOW II Missle. I understand that the current version of the upgraded LAV has a lightweight system that can pre-detonate a RPG war head before it reaches the armor of the LAV and therefore withstand it. Of course this probably wouldn't help if volley shots are launched at the same spot but hopefully the gunners will take care of the threat by then. I believe we both agree that heavy armor offers a lot more protection. My original statement is the LAV is probably one of the best examples of a light armored reconnaisance or cavalry fighting vehicle. That being said, there is some terrain that even tanks shouldn't be employed. I taught MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) for years and the one point I always tried to emphasize to my students is that Infantry protects armor, not the other way around.

Semper Fi Gunny. I was also with 2d LAI/LAR Bravo Co 91-96. I just recently visited our old Unit and got a glimpse of the new LAV's as well as a new Armory that was built. The LAV along with a great crew is an awesome weapon. My crew has its name on the Top Gun trophy and had the opportunity to spank some Bradley's on the range. I think the Army did a great thing bringing in the Stryker, it seems to have served them well.

I read once that the USMC lent a couple of its LAV-25 to either the 82nd or 101st Airborne units, does anyone anything about what the airborne thought of the LAV-25s?

Originally Posted by AVON

I read once that the USMC lent a couple of its LAV-25 to either the 82nd or 101st Airborne units, does anyone anything about what the airborne thought of the LAV-25s?

It was the 82nd. They evaluated it as a replacement for the M-551 Sheridan that was being phased out. As I recall, they liked it but the Army wouldn't buy it for just the 82nd. I think it probably had a lot to do with it being on the Bradley's turf too. The LAV-25 and the Bradley use the same main gun.

Thank you, usmcgunny!