Originally Posted by AikiRooster

That's true enough. I don't know the answers to this problem. My assumption is strictly off of how things tend to work here in the states and that would be excessively political and the officer's hand being tied due to same. I highly doubt the entire dept is full of lazy bums suckin down donuts all day.

The problem in the UK is that that the police are hamstrung by civil laws and their own bureaucracy. There is a shortage of cops, of training, of equipment and especially the armed intervention police as local constables don't carry firearms. Factor this and the bewildering jungle of red tape British police must cut threw to make an arrest.

But as MontyB said its a problem with English Law Enforcement, its a problem that the British have been struggling with for 2 decades. Adding armed civilians solve things themselves only would make the problem worse.

I am surprised few Americans recall a time in our History called the "Wild West". Were true Government Law enforcement was law almost non-exsistant and people solving problems with shootouts, mob lynchings and other acts of civilans acting as their own law enforcement agent. Not exactly the most civilized era in our history so why on earth would anyone want to go back to it?

I don't think anyone does necessarily mmarsh but if the police won't protect them than they are almost forced into the position unless they just want to allow themselves to be someone's biatch so to speak.
I am not particularly fond of the cops not being armed either. That just don't make sense to me. For a long long time, too long in my opinion, Veterans Affairs Police Officer's (Federal) in the USA were not armed. I was one of the ones that fought really hard for them to get armed, which now they are. No, I was not with them at the time but I knew many of them from training and certifying some of them in DT, OC and PR24. The problem there, also excessive bureaucracy.

Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm

I'm telling people that they should not rely on others for their own self defense. I'm telling people that the S can HTF at any moment. As a Police Officer I try and serve my community as best as I can. I cannot be everywhere. Sadly I am told not to go after some people because of politics. It is a fact of society. It happens in the USA, it happens in the UK, and it happens everywhere else in the world.

"It is better to have then not need then need and not have."

I in no way wish for random violence. I would rather live in a world where firearms and weapons and people like me are not needed. I'd rather live in a world where the worst crime is the rain ruining a picnic.

But guess what..... that world will never come. I know that peace is not something that is constant. Violence sadly is a daily part of our society. You have criminals, you have prey, and you have those that fight back.

Stop being the damn victim. Stand up for yourself and fight back. I am sick and tired of people bitching the standard victim routine. The rules of Darwin are still alive and well if modern day society. You have the strong and you have the weak. Lucky with the modern advancement of tools (Hammer, Automobile, Firearm, Printing Press etc...) everyone is at a equal playing field in terms of physical matters. There is still those in our society that are are mentally weak. They are the victim. They play the victim and preach the role of the victim.

I am not. I don't stand down, I don't let people step on me, I don't let people prey on me. I have seen the best and the worst of society. Trust me.... the best of society on not that great and the worst of society is something you cannot even grasp until you see it for yourself.

Society is not peachy and peaceful. It just seems like that because you have not been on the other end of society. Walk the ghettos and see how life on the street really is.

Self Defense is something that I don't rely on others for. I can simply be driving down the road and be car jacked. I can walk down the Beach is Miami Beach and be mugged. I keep an eye out for the predator and I watch my back. I stay armed... why? Because calling for the police can take up to five minutes but being knifed can happen in thirty seconds.

Sven Hassel was lucky. Those scumbags could have aimed for the wheels and disabled the Van. What do you think they would do next? Simply say sorry and fix the flat? No! They could have advanced and killed him.

In the military we call that an ambush... learn about it.

There's no way I would carry a firearm for protection in England as that is highly Illegal and would cause me to 1)Have my licence revoked
2)go to jail .However I have taken to carrying my 12g S/A on the passenger seat 24/7 just in case I get the urge to do some spontaneous clay pigeon shooting even in the middle of the night if needed ,if you get my meaning!

The situation on the British isles is not unique, allthough the gun laws are stricter, we have much of the same story here.

In general our police officers are unarmed, but most patrol vehicles have the service arms locked down in a steel crate that can be opened on authorization from police HQ or in extraordinary situations.

I can fully understand the idea of an unarmed policeman as he can address the public in a more peacefull manner and communicate with the authority of his uniform, without being a possible threath.
I have used the same tactic on road blocks and on guard duty, being backed up by two armed buddies and a machinegun there's really no need to carry a sidearm as long as the situation don't call for it.
Works fairly well both with drunk hooligans and enraged demonstrants, plus it will take the focus away from the backup team.


As for self defense, the law here are strict, we are not allowed to use more force than we are faced with here, being that the precense of a gun in the hands of an intruder or robber is generally not enough excuse to actually shoot the bugger.
Being shot at opens for returning fire, but deadly force is still in a grey zone...
And in Norway civilians are not allowed to carry weapons of any kind for other than "righteous purposes", unlike the criminals who don't give a toss about the law.
So robbing a guy in an alley on a dark night is fairly easy, while trying to break into a hunting lodge with 4-5 armed hunters sitting inside would be more dangerous.

That much said, the criminal societies here have more fear of the treasury department than police.
The police have to act according to their regulations and budgets, while the treasury department will relentlessly pursuit any source of irregular income and virtually tax the perpertators to death.
Being sendt to jail in Norway is no really punishment for a criminal, but if his Ferrari, his complete Boss and Armani wardrobe, and his jewelry is imponded by the treasury department...well, that hurts!

Oh by the way, I'm always on my way for a hunt or heading for the shooting range...

Originally Posted by sven hassell

..............I think this proves UK gun laws penalise the law abiding only!

Gun control only helps people that have guns illegally.

Gun control my arse.... suck my Glock