Topic: Joint Combat Pistol 2

5.56X45mm · January 23rd, 2006

The 5.7x28mm and the 4.6mm are both horrible rounds.

They work great on armour but not soft targets. It's like shooting a .22 Magnum cartridge. A standard M882 NATO Ball (9X19mm FMJ) cause a larger wound cavity than the new two "super anti-armour" rounds. They are good for limited applications. The military needs a good all around cartridge. Rifles are for armour. Pistols are for self defense.

The 9X19mm round is a good cartridge if you use the right ammo. I shoot a +P JHP 147 Gr. 9x19mm round. That's what my department issues me. That's what I use.

Luckly police have no issues with the ammo that they use.

major liability · January 23rd, 2006

5.56, since you seem to be so knowledgable, what do you think of the Gyurza round?

5.56X45mm · January 23rd, 2006

Well, it's a larger caliber so it will inflict a larger wound cavity, but most of it's energy will leave the body. A bullet kills not by simply making a hole. It kills by the transference of energy. It's like when you get in a traffic accident. The energy of the impact is transfered into the body and that cuase hydrostatic damage. The object of a well made cartridge is penetration of the target and transfer of energy. If the bullet just zips throu the target, it makes a nice pretty hole. You can bleed out because it it but it will not stop you dead in your tracks. That is the purpose of bullets. To drop you right there and then.

Most militaries are still looking at fighting a war in 3rd generation warfare tactics. Most wars of the next century will be 4th generation warfare. Conflicts of modern hi-tech armies against simple armed terrorist. No body armour, no tanks, nothing like that.

What you need for that type of combat is a cartridge that will simply stop and disable the target in one shot. And the older calibers do that quite well.

.45 ACP is a prime example. It's a large, slow, sub-sonic round. When it hits a target. It's like getting smacked with a baseball bat.

sven hassell · January 26th, 2006

PS - What does England issue as a standard issue combat pistol. I forgot, I know it's something, I think the High Power. But I forgot.__________________

Browning High Power Mk. III - modern military/law enforcement variation
Browning L9A1
The Browning L9A1 is a semi-automatic pistol, firing a 9×19 mm cartridge from a 13-round magazine. It has been the standard sidearm of the British Army since 1957, succeeding the Enfield No 2 Mk I revolver. The weapon is a variation of the Browning Hi-Power (FN GP35).
The name with an Army designation, L9A1 - Land use, 9 mm, mArk 1.

However Special forces units have started using:
SigSauer P226 (Switzerland)

SigSauer P226

Trigger: Double-Action or Double-Action Only
Caliber: 9 mm Luger, 9x21mm, .357 SIG, .40SW Length, overall: 196mmBarrel length: 112mmWeight unloaded : 742g (9mm), 840g (.40 and .357)Capacity: 15 rounds (9mm); 12 rounds (.40 and .357)

January 23rd, 2006	Post 11
5.56X45mm 100% Space Shuttle Door Gunner Gear	The 5.7x28mm and the 4.6mm are both horrible rounds. They work great on armour but not soft targets. It's like shooting a .22 Magnum cartridge. A standard M882 NATO Ball (9X19mm FMJ) cause a larger wound cavity than the new two "super anti-armour" rounds. They are good for limited applications. The military needs a good all around cartridge. Rifles are for armour. Pistols are for self defense. The 9X19mm round is a good cartridge if you use the right ammo. I shoot a +P JHP 147 Gr. 9x19mm round. That's what my department issues me. That's what I use. Luckly police have no issues with the ammo that they use. __________________ Dibs On Sarah Palin If Ever Single!

January 26th, 2006	Post 14
sven hassell Centurion	PS - What does England issue as a standard issue combat pistol. I forgot, I know it's something, I think the High Power. But I forgot.__________________ Browning High Power Mk. III - modern military/law enforcement variation Browning L9A1 The Browning L9A1 is a semi-automatic pistol, firing a 9×19 mm cartridge from a 13-round magazine. It has been the standard sidearm of the British Army since 1957, succeeding the Enfield No 2 Mk I revolver. The weapon is a variation of the Browning Hi-Power (FN GP35). The name with an Army designation, L9A1 - Land use, 9 mm, mArk 1. However Special forces units have started using: SigSauer P226 (Switzerland) SigSauer P226 Trigger: Double-Action or Double-Action Only Caliber: 9 mm Luger, 9x21mm, .357 SIG, .40SW Length, overall: 196mmBarrel length: 112mmWeight unloaded : 742g (9mm), 840g (.40 and .357)Capacity: 15 rounds (9mm); 12 rounds (.40 and .357) __________________

January 23rd, 2006	Post 12
major liability Tribunus Laticlavius Gear	5.56, since you seem to be so knowledgable, what do you think of the Gyurza round?

January 23rd, 2006	Post 13
5.56X45mm 100% Space Shuttle Door Gunner Gear	Well, it's a larger caliber so it will inflict a larger wound cavity, but most of it's energy will leave the body. A bullet kills not by simply making a hole. It kills by the transference of energy. It's like when you get in a traffic accident. The energy of the impact is transfered into the body and that cuase hydrostatic damage. The object of a well made cartridge is penetration of the target and transfer of energy. If the bullet just zips throu the target, it makes a nice pretty hole. You can bleed out because it it but it will not stop you dead in your tracks. That is the purpose of bullets. To drop you right there and then. Most militaries are still looking at fighting a war in 3rd generation warfare tactics. Most wars of the next century will be 4th generation warfare. Conflicts of modern hi-tech armies against simple armed terrorist. No body armour, no tanks, nothing like that. What you need for that type of combat is a cartridge that will simply stop and disable the target in one shot. And the older calibers do that quite well. .45 ACP is a prime example. It's a large, slow, sub-sonic round. When it hits a target. It's like getting smacked with a baseball bat.