Hello all. I recently saw an episode of "The American Experience" that dealt with the Pacific was. I already knew about the Japanese propensity to fight to the death against the Americans, but as I was watching, a thought came to me, and it was, in fact, referred to in the episode. I would like to know why the Japanese Kwantung Army in China simply surrendered en masse to the attacking Russian army while on Okinawa and the other Pacific islands, the idea was never even considered. It seems quite strange that two units of the same army had such different reactions when faced with basically the same situation: an overwhelming unbeatable attack. Any ideas?

Dean.

probably because they knew there was no chance of winning, and a mass suicide was not the answer.

lol, maybe they had more sense or just had enough..or maybe they were more of older people and highly educated graduates that had lifes and families and didnt want to just die..

Originally Posted by CanadianCombat

probably because they knew there was no chance of winning, and a mass suicide was not the answer.

I would have thought the same thing... but they were willing to send the Yamato on a suicide missing against the American fleet at Okinawa, while the Japanese troops were fighting a hopeless battle against US Marines. In both theatres, the result was pre-ordained, and in both theatres, all of the combattants knew it. The only differences that I can think of is that the Japanese knew the Russians better, having faced them off and on since the 1900's. It may not have been a war of "racial extermination" as some have characterized the war between the US and Japan. The only other difference was that the Russians were far more mobile than were the Japanese, or than the Americans for that matter. It is true that the tactics used by the Russians were far different than those used by the Americans... but did that have an effect on the Japanese reactions in the two theatres? I'd love to know.
Dean.

Originally Posted by CanadianCombat

probably because they knew there was no chance of winning, and a mass suicide was not the answer.

Maybe, but that doesn't answer Dan's question of "why", why they came to that conclusion and other Japanese armies did not. Suicide Banzi charges where designed just to die on a blaze of glory, not really turn the tide. Kamakazi attacks etc. This was a culture that tortured and beheaded our POWs because they thought surrender was the worst thing you could do, worse than committing suicide.

Good question Dan! I don't know the answer, make sure to tell us when you do find it.

The Russian that attack them was huge, the Japanese were just steam rollered out of sight. It is well worth reading this Russian campaign in Manchuria for the sheer size of men and material.

But did their technology match that of their enemies..?

Actually, I can answer that. In both cases, the Japanese were completely outclassed by the opposition. They knew that they could not beat the Americans, and apparently even told the Germans that an American amphibious assault could not be stopped. In every case from Guadalcanal on where the Americans attacked the Japanese, they had sea control and total air superiority. IMO, hardly conducive to suicide attacks, but then again, I am not Japanese.
In China, the Russians also had complete air superiority as well as mobility that the Japanese could only stand and watch. The Russians went right around and through the Kwantung army, which, being leg infantry with little in the way of effective anti-armour weapons, were completely unable to do anything but stand and die... or surrender.
In both theatres, the situation was passably the same. Nowhere to retreat, no supplies, no reinforcements, no support of any kind. Yet in the Pacific there were suicide infantry attacks, kamikaze attacks on US ships, the Yamato mission, and on and on and on... but not in China! I don't get it.

Dean.

that is weird.. True to say that the Americans had superior technology during the war, but still, the Japanese refused to surrender and fought till death, and we all know what they did(banzai charge, kamikaze)
Against Russia, twas the opposite...just like it wasnt the same kind of Japanese soldiers..

also take into consideration that the russian assault into china was in china, while the american forces were invading the japanese homeland.