Originally Posted by Del Boy

Only one side has ever wanted peace in the middle east, and that is Israel

Del Boy

I am sorry but you mistaken here. Israel is not the peace loving paradise you claim it is. It has been just as much an agitator of violence and chaos as it has been a victim. Its very hard to claim you want peace while at the same time occupying foreign land.

There is a powerful Jewish lobby in both Washington and Isreal that would like nothing better than to create a "Greater Israel" which is very similar to the Nazi ideology of Lebersraum (living space). That means creating a Larger Isreal by seizing land in other countries and by expelling all the non-Jews. The most (infamous) of these people was Rabbi Meir Kahane (a member of the Israel Knesset). He's dead, but his group and ideology is still around.

Dr. Baruch Goldstien is another example.

We have seen evidence in this in the settler activity on the West Bank and previously in Gaza. We have seen Israeli Likud Prime Ministers such as Netyahou, Shamir, Begin and previously Sharon actively protect the illegal settlements on stolen lands, even against the public will of ordinary Israelis.

Many of these lunatics live in my hometown in Brookyln NY, and you would be shocked to hear some of their ideas. One fruitcake I heard in Hyde Park (in London) was advocating the forced castration of all Palestinean men. Another common opinion is that the Israeli Army do reprisal attacks against civilians populations as punishment for terrorist attacks. (Again much like the SS used to do in occupied Europe).

And before you say this is a lunatic fringe group, I would remind you that this fringe group has considerable political power, both within the governments and through special interests/fund raisers. There political power is considerable and poisonous. They are far more politically powerful in Israel than say Bin Laden is in Saudi Arabia.

Originally Posted by phoenix80

Yep... IDF is an official source which I would like to believe. Private web sites have their anti-semitic bias against the Jewish state

We all know that Israel has a policy of nuclear ambiguity which neither confirms nor denies the ownership of nuclear weapons. So......

What about the Israeli Prime Minister, do you think that he has an anti Semitic bias?

After decades in which Israel has stuck to a doctrine of nuclear ambiguity, Mr Olmert let slip during an interview in Germany that Israel did indeed have weapons of mass destruction.
He told Germany's Sat.1 channel on Monday evening: "Iran, openly, explicitly and publicly, threatens to wipe Israel off the map. Can you say that this is the same level, when they are aspiring to have nuclear weapons, as America, France, Israel and Russia?"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...970861,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3340639.stm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...uisrael112.xml
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle752059.ece

And of course we can't forget the imprisonment of Mordechai Vanunu for revealing Israel's nuclear weapons program.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...nt/2841377.stm

i see Ahmadinejad's point. we created Israel in the middle of another country, why couldn't we have just put it in Ontario? another organized country... taken apart?*

This mess is partially to fault of those who made Israel in the first place.



*: Mind you I still think he's crazy.

Nobody CREATED the state of Israel. Israelis fought for their independence in 1940s and took it from UK.

I am not surprised if a Kucinich (who sucks up to Syrians and Iranian regime) supporter talks like that though

Ahmedinejad is a kind of idiot. Sorry but that seems the truth.

Originally Posted by major liability

Dropping them square in the middle of their most hated enemies, I'm sure THAT will work out just fine.

Quick question- didn't the jews and arabs get along fine, untill the jewish immigrants started coming in in huge numbers, and when the idea of a jewish state in the region started becoming on a concrete political objective?

what i'm saying is, that they were'nt neccesarily enemies in the first place, but became so because of the israel issue.

correct me if i'm wrong, please.

Originally Posted by phoenix80

Nobody CREATED the state of Israel. Israelis fought for their independence in 1940s and took it from UK.

you're kind of right

but not really

The modern state of Israel has its roots in the Land of Israel, a concept central to Judaism for over three thousand years. After World War I, the League of Nations approved the British Mandate for Palestine with the intent of creating a "national home for the Jewish people".[8] In 1947, the United Nations approved the partition of the Mandate of Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab.[9] The Arab League rejected the plan, but on May 14, 1948, Israel declared its independence. The new country's victory in the subsequent Arab-Israeli War expanded the borders of the Jewish state beyond those in the UN Partition Plan. Since then, Israel has been in conflict with many of the neighboring Arab countries, resulting in several major wars and decades of violence. Throughout the conflict, Israel's boundaries have been subject to dispute, although Israel has signed peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan, and efforts are being made to reach a permanent accord with the Palestinians.

as for your earlier comments that Israel does not possess nuclear weapons;

again you lack of knowledge, an clear lack of judgement/research skills...have made you look like a fool. all the sources i found all quote that Israel was the sixth country to gain nuclear weapons, and many also mention their assistance to south africa (at the time under an anti apartied embargoe) in developing their own WMD's


http://www.nti.org/e_research/profil...ear/index.html
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/ <----Israel's Nuclear Weapons Warner D. Farr, LTC, U.S. Army, September 1999
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/farr.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel

Originally Posted by phoenix80

I am not surprised if a Kucinich (who sucks up to Syrians and Iranian regime) supporter talks like that though

and im not surprised that a supporter of the former shah of iran, who used the SAVAK to control his people with fear and torture, would have such a tenuous grasp on reality

Originally Posted by fingolfin361

Quick question- didn't the jews and arabs get along fine, untill the jewish immigrants started coming in in huge numbers, and when the idea of a jewish state in the region started becoming on a concrete political objective?

what i'm saying is, that they were'nt neccesarily enemies in the first place, but became so because of the israel issue.

correct me if i'm wrong, please.

Your assumption is pretty much correct, the Palestinians and the Jews had lived for centuries in relative peace. The fly in the ointment seems to be the Zionists who have advocated for the total removal of all non Jews (Arabs) from Israel and also support the idea of expansionism into their neighbours territory.

The Zionist movement is generally accepted to have been bought about by an Austrian Jew Theodor Hertzl in the late 19th century. It was the descendants of this movement arriving in what is now Israel after WWII that started agitating for change.

And Jewish Terrorists in the area blew up and killed a number of British Troops, which caused the pull out from the area by the British, which in turn allowed the Jews in the area to force more Arabs off their land.

Originally Posted by Gator

And Jewish Terrorists in the area blew up and killed a number of British Troops, which caused the pull out from the area by the British, which in turn allowed the Jews in the area to force more Arabs off their land.

The Irgun, a militant Zionist organization bombed the King David Hotel on 22 Jul 1946, killing 91 people including 17 Jews. This terrorist act precipitated the withdrawal of the British from the Mandate of Palestine.

Sixty years ago, however, at the time of the British Mandate, it was Jews in Palestine who mainly waged terrorism against the Palestinians. As Jewish leader David Ben-Gurion recorded in his personal history of Israel: “From 1946 to 1947 there were scarcely any Arab attacks on the Yishuv [the Jewish community in Palestine].”
The same could not be said for the Zionists. Jewish terrorists waged an intense and bloody campaign against the Palestinians, British, and even some Jews who opposed them leading up to the establishment of Israel.


1947: A Year of Terror

Jan. 12—Four killed by Irgun terrorist bombing of British headquarters.
Jan. 13—Arab kidnapped and castrated by Jewish terrorists.
March 1—Sixteen Britons killed by Jewish terrorists/Britain invokes martial law
March 10—Jewish informer killed by Jewish terrorists.
March 11—Two British soldiers killed by Jewish terrorists.
April 8—British constable killed by Jewish terrorists.
April 8—Jewish boy killed by British troops.
April 8—Jew beaten to death by Arabs.
April 22—Eight killed in Jewish terrorist bombing of the Cairo-Haifa train.
April 25—Five killed in Jewish terrorist bombing of British camp.
April 26—British police official killed by Jewish terrorist.
May 8—Three Jewish shops in Tel Aviv whose owners refused to contribute to Jewish terrorist groups burned down by Jewish terrorists.
May 8—Jew killed near Tel Aviv by Arab terrorists.
May 12—Two British policemen killed in Jewish Jerusalem.
May 15—British policeman killed in terrorist ambush.
May 15—Two British soldiers killed in terrorist Stern Gang attack.
May 16—Two British police officers killed by terrorists.
May 18—One Jew killed, one wounded by Arab terrorists.
June 5—Jewish terrorists introduce letter bombs in Middle East.
June 28—Four British soldiers killed in Jewish terrorist raids.
July 3—“Anti-terrorist” Jewish families beaten up by Irgunists.
July 18—British soldier killed by Jewish terrorists.
July 19—Another British soldier killed by Jewish terrorists.
July 20—Yet another British soldier killed by Jewish terrorists.
July 23—65 Jews killed when Haganah sinks immigration ship.
July 26—Two British soldiers killed in booby trap.
July 29—Three Jews executed by hanging. Jewish terrorists retaliate by hanging two British soldiers.
Aug. 5—Three British police killed by bomb; plot discovered to poison the water supply of non-Jewish parts of Jerusalem with botulism and other bacteria.
Aug. 10—Four Jews killed in Arab terror attack on Tel Aviv café.
Aug. 12—Five Jews, four Arabs killed, others injured, in spread of violent incidents over three days.
Aug. 15—Twelve Palestinians killed in raid by Haganah troops.
Aug. 18—Shops of five Jews in Tel Aviv destroyed by Jewish terrorists.
Aug. 23—Five Arabs of one family—two men, a woman and two children—killed by Jewish terrorists.
Sept. 7—French foil Stern Gang plot to air bomb London.
Sept. 21—British messenger killed by Jewish terrorists.
Sept. 26—Four British policemen killed in Irgun terrorist bank robbery.
Sept. 27—Illegal Jewish immigrant killed by British.
Sept. 29—13 killed, 53 wounded in Irgun terrorist attack on British police station.
Oct. 4—Two Jews killed in ambush, two Arabs killed in retaliation.
Oct. 13—Two British troops killed by Jewish terrorists in Jerusalem.
Oct. 26—Jewish settlement policeman found killed near Gaza.
Nov. 3—Jewish policeman killed, reportedly by Stern Gang after refusing to reveal secret police matters.
Nov. 12—21 killed in British-Jewish clashes.
Nov. 14—Jewish terrorists kill 4 Britons in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv
Nov. 30—Violent riots erupt throughout Arab world following adoption of U.N. partition plan. In Palestine, seven Jews killed and eight wounded in the first day. All told, during the first week at least 159 persons were killed in the Middle East, 66 of them in Palestine.
Dec. 2—Palestinians begin 3-day protest strike; 20 Jews, 15 Arabs killed. Five Arabs and seven Jews were killed the next day during a six-hour battle on the Tel Aviv-Jaffa border.
Dec. 13—35 Palestinian civilians killed in Jewish terrorist attacks.
Dec. 14—14 Jews killed by Arab Legion in retaliation.
Dec. 18—Palmach (“assault companies”) kills 10 Arabs, including 5 children, in nighttime raid on northern Galilee village of Khissas. The following day Haganah troops blew up the home of the village elder of Qazaza in central Palestine, killing several inhabitants. Wrote The Times of London: “While the Jews are suffering mainly through sniping at their road convoys, the Arabs have lost many lives through Jewish assaults on their villages.”
Dec. 20—Haganah raid on village of Qazaza kills one Palestinian.
Dec. 24—Stern Gang member killed for betrayal of another member.
Dec. 25—16 Arabs, Jews and British killed on Christmas.
Dec. 25—Palestinian landowner killed for selling land to Jews.
Dec. 26—Ben-Gurion proposes major offensive to reduce Arab population.
Dec. 26—Jewish terrorists get $107,000 in heists of diamond plants.
Dec. 29—14 Arabs killed by Irgun bomb in Jerusalem.
Dec. 29—Irgun flogs British major and three sergeants.
Dec. 30—41 Jews, 6 Arabs killed in riot sparked by Stern Gang.
Dec. 31—Irgun claims to have killed 374 Arabs and British during

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/May-Ju...6/0605014.html