Frak, let's sell the IDF F-22s. Better that Israel has them then some other nation.

I support Israel.

'Nuff Said...

Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm

Frak, let's sell the IDF F-22s. Better that Israel has them then some other nation.

I support Israel.

'Nuff Said...

Then they'll just turn around and sell the technology to our enemies. I have always supported Israel but not so much after that deal they had with the Chinese with helping them develop their new jet fighter (which is pretty much an F-16 knockoff). True that Israel did pull out of the deal under American pressure but they left much of the research in the hands of the Chinese that the Chinese pretty much finished the project themselves. Israel shouldn't have made the deal in the first place.

The only foreign countries I'd trust with the F-22 are Japan, Britain, and possibly Australia (if they can afford it...).

lol that jet is if at all a knock off of the Lavi fighter, which was cut off funding due to american pressure...

Originally Posted by ASTRALdragon

Then they'll just turn around and sell the technology to our enemies. I have always supported Israel but not so much after that deal they had with the Chinese with helping them develop their new jet fighter (which is pretty much an F-16 knockoff). True that Israel did pull out of the deal under American pressure but they left much of the research in the hands of the Chinese that the Chinese pretty much finished the project themselves. Israel shouldn't have made the deal in the first place.

The only foreign countries I'd trust with the F-22 are Japan, Britain, and possibly Australia (if they can afford it...).

Exactly right. And the Lavi wasn't the first time US technology meant for Israel somehow wound up in the hands of the Chinese.

I find it abit obcene that we give Isreal $11 Bilion a year and they pull sh** like this.

And why do the Israelis need the F-22? Its an air superiority fighter its not like Hamas has state of the art-air defense and its AtG is very limited.

Its an offensive weapon, designed to penetrate the air defense of say... Iran.

Never mind, I now know what they need it for...

with due respect Lavi was an israeli desighn and not an american one. that was exactly the reason USA put pressure on israel to cancel the project and keep buying F-16s...

Originally Posted by ASTRALdragon

The only foreign countries I'd trust with the F-22 are Japan, Britain, and possibly Australia (if they can afford it...).

As it happens, Australia are working closely with China now, mostly tradewise, according to news reports. China is reported as Australia's biggest trading partner, a big + for Australia's great mineral resources, metals etc. Rio Tinto alone sends I train every hour from its source sites, each train I mile long it is said. Very good business, particularly as within a few years China will have the most wealthy middle class in the world. Australia's geographical position make this very good for them. Their Prime Minister lived in China, speaks perfect Mandarin and gives the impression of being very pro-China, although that has not prevented him speaking up re human rights. Interesting development, very good financial result for Australia. The world order is changing.

(Ref : News report on recent China's Olympic Torch party's progress through Australia.)

Originally Posted by SHERMAN

with due respect Lavi was an israeli desighn and not an american one. that was exactly the reason USA put pressure on Israel to cancel the project and keep buying F-16s...

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Not all of it. It was not a 100% Isreali designed. The engines for example were Pratt and Whitney PW2110 and the weapons systems too were US (and French). The Isrealis and Chinese didnt have the savoir faire to build its own engines at that time. Furthermore the US paid for the Lavi's development...over $1 Billion.

A March 1992 report by State Department inspector general Sherman Funk, "Report of Audit: Department of State Defense Trade Controls", states that alleged Israeli violations of US laws and regulations "cited and supported by reliable intelligence information show a systematic and growing pattern of unauthorized transfers ... dating back to about 1983".

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=357

And the same thing was done with chips for the Patriot missile, there is this nasty habit of US technology making its way to China through Isreal.

I am sorry but to attempt to sell the technology that someone else paid for to an enemy of that country is beyond the pale, especially when its done repetitively. I'd also point out that Isreal, after Russia, provides most of Chinas arms imports. Now I won't tell Isreal not to sell arms to China, because the US is hardly the one to being giving lectures on that subject, but at least dont use our tech and our money to do it.

Originally Posted by Hoover19 circa 1976

Israel will never get the F-15's. There is no way. The air force would be really stupid if they gave that kind of technology up. I trust in our country that the USAF will not give the F-15 up. It is to valuable for the U.S. its kind of like our secret weapon.

Never say never. 20 years from now the F-22 will still be the tip of the sword but with a duller edge, its superiority to what the rest of the world has to offer will be much smaller and then we'll be happy to sell it, minus some avionics and weapons systems, to Israel and a select few other takers.

Originally Posted by ASTRALdragon

The only foreign countries I'd trust with the F-22 are Japan, Britain, and possibly Australia (if they can afford it...).

Japan? Are you nuts? The Japanese always put on a good face and try their best to look harmless. That's the thing about the Japanese... everyone on this side of the world knows it, when it comes to them, the side they show you and what they've really got going on are two different things. I guess you can say that goes with everyone but they are ESPECIALLY good at it. They are just geniuses at apologizing and insulting people at the same time.
Do not think that the Japanese are a reliable ally.

As for weapons sales... be real careful who you sell stuff to. REAL careful.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

Japan? Are you nuts? The Japanese always put on a good face and try their best to look harmless. That's the thing about the Japanese... everyone on this side of the world knows it, when it comes to them, the side they show you and what they've really got going on are two different things. I guess you can say that goes with everyone but they are ESPECIALLY good at it. They are just geniuses at apologizing and insulting people at the same time.
Do not think that the Japanese are a reliable ally.

As for weapons sales... be real careful who you sell stuff to. REAL careful.

Well, they're putting on a pretty good face then and have been for the last 50-some years. Afaik, the Japanese have not offensively attacked another country ever since WWII. Their own constitution states that their military is a defensive force only. The U.S. has sold nearly all of its most advanced weapons technology to Japan (i.e. AEGIS and Patriot). I don't think another one will hurt. Until there has been a case, or even a rumor, of Japanese espionage in the U.S. for American technology, Japan is a low risk for American weapons technology. Japan is probably the best ally the U.S. has in Asia.