They are not Military, and operating under Arms in a Combat Zone.
I say the United States Military can do the job better, and should do the job, as long as the United States of America is in Iraq.

While I agree the military should be tasked w/ protection of DOD and diplomatic personel - however, they are currently OVER tasked w/ higher priority missions.
What is the alternative - another security firm? One lesser known run by foreign nationals?

Originally Posted by Tsunami

While I agree the military should be tasked w/ protection of DOD and diplomatic personel - however, they are currently OVER tasked w/ higher priority missions.
What is the alternative - another security firm? One lesser known run by foreign nationals?

There is a mechanism in place for times when the Federal Government finds itself low on Troops, but high on Mission Requirements, that mechanism is called the Draft.

If a War is worth doing, then it is worth doing right.

[quote=Tsunami;371485]Point taken - however you mistake their mission for killing when its actually protecting.


My point exactly - post 9.


Gator - sorry to repeat the question, but would you prefer a draft of un battle-tried young guys at risk or the strain being taken by professional experienced vets ?

[quote=Del Boy;371495]

Originally Posted by Tsunami

Point taken - however you mistake their mission for killing when its actually protecting.


My point exactly - post 9.


Gator - sorry to repeat the question, but would you prefer a draft of un battle-tried young guys at risk or the strain being taken by professional experienced vets ?

As I have pointed out many times here on this Forum, in World War II, the United States Military used Draftees, many Draftees.
Now, you may view the people who (in my own opinion) saved the entire Earth, the American Soldier, Sailor, and Marine from World War II as a lesser individual than a modern day Blackwater Employee, but, I say Draftees can do the job just as well as the "Professional" Military, a "Professional" Military which can't seem to get the job done in Iraq, and Afghanistan strangely enough.
I do not know how it is done in your Nation, nor do I care, but in times of trouble the United States Government has Drafted Americans to Fight for this Nation, and, we have done well so far, seeing how we are on top of the World.

I kind of figured the draft card was going to be pulled from the deck!


Think about it - what other resource do we tap? Here is my two cents on the draft... NO WAY, NO HOW, NOT NOW! I don't want to serve w/ some schlep that does not want to be there, has their mind on something other than the mission on hand and has no understanding of duty, courage and discipline.

Given the alternative, that is if the draft is considered the alternative, I will take Blackwater backfilling the private security for a bunch of overpaid windbags!

Originally Posted by Tsunami

I kind of figured the draft card was going to be pulled from the deck!


Think about it - what other resource do we tap? Here is my two cents on the draft... NO WAY, NO HOW, NOT NOW! I don't want to serve w/ some schlep that does not want to be there, has their mind on something other than the mission on hand and has no understanding of duty, courage and discipline.

Given the alternative, that is if the draft is considered the alternative, I will take Blackwater backfilling the private security for a bunch of overpaid windbags!

I have never heard such "schlep" about those millions of draftees that have served this country in time of peace and in time of war. It accounts for far more than just the "Greatest Generation" (those who gave so much during WWII). As far as "duty, courage and discipline" you can add "honor" and "country", if they aren't the poster children for these traits, would you care to tell me who is? They were mostly draftees.

Don't ever underestimate the result of a "war draft" ... Americans will ALWAYS rise to the occasion - it is what spurred the original Minutemen to fight the tyranny of their mother country, and caused so many young men (and women), to march off to war with the 'evil axis' and then brought many young people to consider a career with the military.

The genesis of the modern military owes more to the 'draft', than just a footnote of history. It has created a military who's very soul was created out of the blood and suffering of those who were drafted, who gave so much of themselves to ensure the survival of the United States and the freedoms guaranteed by our Constitution.

Many of those same draftees (or future draftees), you denigrate with your comments, are the same ones who died in Vietnam and other 'firefights' that have occured since ... who would rise to the occasion during future wars and combat.

When someone pulls the draft card from the deck, remember what we owe to those who answered the draft.

Originally Posted by Tsunami

Do I believe in PMC's - I am truly undecided. I know this though, a lot of vets find work through them and that is more than can be said concerning any other private sector.

We have covered this matter in several other threads, but I feel that due to the fact we have a new member it would be wise to reinforce this matter.

Tsunami, our first consideration in this debate is be to be honest and get the terminology correct, otherwise we are all just missing the major point. The very term "PMCs", is nothing more than sweet tasting euphemism for Mercenaries. This has previously been debated and shown to be the case. The very fact that the euphemism is used instead of the correct term is a good indicator that something stinks about it all.

Until this is accepted we may as well just p!ss into the wind, as the whole debate is based on incorrect assumption.

You can spout the history of warfare till your blue in the face - the truth is, you need only go back to the late 60's, early 70's. General Wesley Kanne Clark noted in his last book what the draft had done to the Army - the moral was shot and discipline was a joke. Now I can't speak for the Minutemen (a bit b/f my time) nor the soldiers that stepped forward from what is considered the "Greatest Generation," but I can say that I have no interest what-so-ever in seeing My Army deginerate into what was... Maybe its a bit different onboard ship?
--
Concerning PMC's and whatever you want to label them - they are necessary. Speaking to Blackwater in particular - they serve their purpose and they employ honorable men and woman. To spout any diffent is speaking in ignorance. Take a look at their site and see if you have the minimum quals, many of us do not. I have no problem with a soldier serving his time and going to a firm such as Blackwater and earning $100k plus a year, the alternative is another unemployed vet - no thanks.

[quote=Gator;371500][quote=Del Boy;371495]

'Now, you may view the people who (in my own opinion) saved the entire Earth, the American Soldier, Sailor, and Marine from World War II as a lesser individual than a modern day Blackwater Employee.

I do not know how it is done in your Nation, nor do I care.' quote.


Hey WINDBAG - Don't ever put your crumby sentiments into my mouth. I reckon I have a great deal more respect for those boys than you could drum up in a million years. You are very quick to want to send them out again I see, rather than have professional volunteers try to do the job.

As for your comment re. 'my nation ' - On the 1st day of The Somme we took 60,000 casualties and came back for more. As far as what you think, read my
lips .................. !!