Iran , Why ?

tetvet

Banned
Why is the U.S. trying so hard to negotiate a nuke deal with Iran ? Iran will never honor any deal and the U.S. could make Iran disappear in the blink of an eye .:shoothea:
 
However the US will not make Iran disappear. Iran on the other hand if they are able to manufacture enough nukes to but Israel out of action just might do it. The Iranian nuclear facilities are 1/2 mile underground. This beyond the current capability of the Israeli military, only the US has bombs that can drive that deep and that would cause one hell of an international incident. It's kind of darned if you do darned if you don't.
 
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Rhetoric is not reality. Iran is decades behind Israel and the US in nuclear capability. Martyrdom isn't something Persians are known for. They know any use of nuclear weapons would be suicide...but it certainly would be a good deterent to make sure the Western rhetoric of military action against them remains precisely that. Smoke and mirrors ladies and gents...smoke and mirrors.
 
Rhetoric is not reality. Iran is decades behind Israel and the US in nuclear capability. Martyrdom isn't something Persians are known for. They know any use of nuclear weapons would be suicide...but it certainly would be a good deterent to make sure the Western rhetoric of military action against them remains precisely that. Smoke and mirrors ladies and gents...smoke and mirrors.

Not for lack of trying. Of course they are behind. The US and Israel have been nuclear power for a long time and Iran is a nuclear wannabe. However remember how small Israel is and how deeply buried the current Iranian nuclear facilities are. They are beyond the reach of Israel's conventional weapons. Only the US is in a position to take them out.
 
Because its not really about Iran, its about Israel and its position as a regional power.

Israel wants to remain the only regional power in the Middle East. Iran and the Arabs do not like being threatened by Israels nuclear arsenal which is why they are each dreaming to get one of their own.

Persian Iran (which is Shiite) doesn't like the fact its surrounded by hostile Arab Sunni Muslims. Shiites have been the targets of genocide by Jihadists before, they are buying themselves some nuclear insurance in case some Sunni Imam gets any crazy Ideas.

Washington doesn't really like Iran or Israel but the fact that Israel holds the sole nuclear trump card destabilizes the region. I think Washington probably does want a counterweight to Israels Nukes so that Israel would be forced to actually come to the negotiation table but without setting off WWIII.

In other words: A Middle East Version of M.A.D.

Now there is an irrational fear that the Iranians would actually use a Nuke at the first opportunity. Here's why not:

1. The Mullahs haven't survived this long by being stupid, they know any unprovoked attack on Israel, Europe or the USA would result in Iran be bombed into the Stone age. They want a nuke for status and for self protection against another nuclear armed nation, They aren't Jihadists (al Qaeda or ISIS) who want to set the non-muslim world on fire

2. Anyone who worries about a Nuclear armed Iran should remember that we allowed Pakistan to get a Nuclear weapons despite the fact its madrases were pumping out Jihadists to fight with al-Qaeda and the Taliban by the thousands. A situation far more dangerous than a nuclear armed Iran.
 
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Because its not really about Iran, its about Israel and its position as a regional power.

Israel wants to remain the only regional power in the Middle East. Iran and the Arabs do not like being threatened by Israels nuclear arsenal which is why they are each dreaming to get one of their own.

Persian Iran (which is Shiite) doesn't like the fact its surrounded by hostile Arab Sunni Muslims. Shiites have been the targets of genocide by Jihadists before, they are buying themselves some nuclear insurance in case some Sunni Imam gets any crazy Ideas.

Washington doesn't really like Iran or Israel but the fact that Israel holds the sole nuclear trump card destabilizes the region. I think Washington probably does want a counterweight to Israels Nukes so that Israel would be forced to actually come to the negotiation table but without setting off WWIII.

In other words: A Middle East Version of M.A.D.

Now there is an irrational fear that the Iranians would actually use a Nuke at the first opportunity. Here's why not:

1. The Mullahs haven't survived this long by being stupid, they know any unprovoked attack on Israel, Europe or the USA would result in Iran be bombed into the Stone age. They want a nuke for status and for self protection against another nuclear armed nation, They aren't Jihadists (al Qaeda or ISIS) who want to set the non-muslim world on fire

2. Anyone who worries about a Nuclear armed Iran should remember that we allowed Pakistan to get a Nuclear weapons despite the fact its madrases were pumping out Jihadists to fight with al-Qaeda and the Taliban by the thousands. A situation far more dangerous than a nuclear armed Iran.

This could go on and on however as heavy handed as Israel may be they by and far the most stable power in the ME and this is one reason they have US backing. The other being the large US Jewish population.
As for Iran they've outright boasted about blowing Israel off the map if given the chance. Don't you remember the taking of the US embassy as one of the 1st things the new regime did in Iran, sound stable? Pakistan has unstable elements, however they are not running the government. Turkey and Arabia fall into this category of having to deal with terrorist but are basically on solid ground.
Since Iran doesn't possess Atomic bombs they are a paper tiger in this respect, but who knows how much help a desperate Russia could provide if the price is right? Then again they may never get the bomb? The Iranians religious regime has survived by rule of fear, they are a very strict religious dictatorship.
 
This could go on and on however as heavy handed as Israel may be they by and far the most stable power in the ME and this is one reason they have US backing. The other being the large US Jewish population.
As for Iran they've outright boasted about blowing Israel off the map if given the chance. Don't you remember the taking of the US embassy as one of the 1st things the new regime did in Iran, sound stable? Pakistan has unstable elements, however they are not running the government. Turkey and Arabia fall into this category of having to deal with terrorist but are basically on solid ground.
Since Iran doesn't possess Atomic bombs they are a paper tiger in this respect, but who knows how much help a desperate Russia could provide if the price is right? Then again they may never get the bomb? The Iranians religious regime has survived by rule of fear, they are a very strict religious dictatorship.

That is a rather monocular view of the system.

I am not sure how you define "stable" but the constant need for early elections, the assassination of Prime ministers by right wing extremists, the constant skullduggery, assassinations and general disregard for international law tell me otherwise.
The real difference between Iran and Israel is that one is a theocracy and the other is a racist theocracy disguised as a democracy.

Do me a huge favour will you and find Iran has boasted of wiping Israel off the map, but for the record here is my counter to the stories often repeated but rarely validated....


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...d-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html

Weird you should focus on the Iranian Embassy hostage thing yet over look how early on in Israels career it happily shot up the USS Liberty, how many Americans did Iran kill in taking the Embassy?

As MMarsh has pointed out Iran with the bomb is no more dangerous than it is without it as to use it is suicide.
 
That is a rather monocular view of the system.

I am not sure how you define "stable" but the constant need for early elections, the assassination of Prime ministers by right wing extremists, the constant skullduggery, assassinations and general disregard for international law tell me otherwise.
The real difference between Iran and Israel is that one is a theocracy and the other is a racist theocracy disguised as a democracy.

Do me a huge favour will you and find Iran has boasted of wiping Israel off the map, but for the record here is my counter to the stories often repeated but rarely validated....


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...d-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html

Weird you should focus on the Iranian Embassy hostage thing yet over look how early on in Israels career it happily shot up the USS Liberty, how many Americans did Iran kill in taking the Embassy?

As MMarsh has pointed out Iran with the bomb is no more dangerous than it is without it as to use it is suicide.

One difference is the Iranian regime has killed 10 of thousands of political and religious prisoners during it tenure, a far higher tally than that of Israel. As previously mentioned the Israelis are heavy handed, however not nearly as heavy handed as the Iranians. The Israelis are probably the only Mideast country that drops leaflets informing the people in the targeted area that they are about to be bombed, prior to the bombing. The Iranian regime is not biased? So Christians and Sunni's are not treated as 2nd class citizens? Personally I wouldn't trust any members of the axis of evil with an atomic bomb, but that's me.
 
One difference is the Iranian regime has killed 10 of thousands of political and religious prisoners during it tenure, a far higher tally than that of Israel. As previously mentioned the Israelis are heavy handed, however not nearly as heavy handed as the Iranians. The Israelis are probably the only Mideast country that drops leaflets informing the people in the targeted area that they are about to be bombed, prior to the bombing. The Iranian regime is not biased? So Christians and Sunni's are not treated as 2nd class citizens? Personally I wouldn't trust any members of the axis of evil with an atomic bomb, but that's me.

Israel just killed 1800 people Gaza basically fish in a barrel, you invaded Iraq on falsified intelligence and killed a damn sight more and you said nothing nor hold anyone accountable yet Iran is the bad guy?

I would suggest is just another player in the "evil" game if we use your criteria.

Tell me if I put a family in a water tank and start filling it with water can I mitigate my liability against harm coming to them if I drop them a letter before I turn on the nozzle because that is all Israels letters are, if you have no where to go then getting a letter to tell you that in 30 seconds a missile is going to land on your house doesn't help.

As for nuclear bombs I would personally be happy if no one had them but I accept that as long as someone does have them then everyone is entitled to them.
 
1. The Mullahs haven't survived this long by being stupid, they know any unprovoked attack on Israel, Europe or the USA would result in Iran be bombed into the Stone age.

This is not correct : Obama has given up Israel and Europe : he will do nothing if Israel is attacked or if Europe is attacked .Til november of next year,Israel can only depend on its own nucleair force,and,if it is attacked,it will riposte.
 
Israel just killed 1800 people Gaza basically fish in a barrel, you invaded Iraq on falsified intelligence and killed a damn sight more and you said nothing nor hold anyone accountable yet Iran is the bad guy?

I would suggest is just another player in the "evil" game if we use your criteria.


As for nuclear bombs I would personally be happy if no one had them but I accept that as long as someone does have them then everyone is entitled to them.

1) What Israel did in Gaza was justified : Gaza was used as a base for attacks on Israel

2)The US attack on Iraq was also justified,that the intelligence reports were not correct,is irrelevant .
 
Why is the U.S. trying so hard to negotiate a nuke deal with Iran ? Iran will never honor any deal and the U.S. could make Iran disappear in the blink of an eye .:shoothea:

Not the US are trying to negotiate a nuke deal with Iran, but Obama,which is not the same .
 
In 1949 The Soviet Union using antiqued equipment, back hand knowledge and scant technical details manufactured on it's own without out side help a nuclear device.

North Korea despite Nuclear sanctions did the same.

If Iran wanted too, it would be nuclear right now, and if Iran was nuclear, outside of reports on testing I have no confidence that our Government would inform us.

Iran does not align with our foreign policy, so Iran must be eliminated. Nuclear smokes and mirrors is a cheap way to buy off the public.

Romans and the Carthaginians in the 21st century.

Book closed.
 
In 1949 The Soviet Union using antiqued equipment, back hand knowledge and scant technical details manufactured on it's own without out side help a nuclear device.

North Korea despite Nuclear sanctions did the same.

If Iran wanted too, it would be nuclear right now, and if Iran was nuclear, outside of reports on testing I have no confidence that our Government would inform us.

Iran does not align with our foreign policy, so Iran must be eliminated. Nuclear smokes and mirrors is a cheap way to buy off the public.

Romans and the Carthaginians in the 21st century.

Book closed.

Several American’s “the Rosenberg’s” spied for Stalin and passed along American’s atomic Knowledge "secrets" to the Soviet Union. This was the key to their Atomic bomb. In fact they were executed for high treason, let’s get the facts straight.
Also if North Korea, a 3rd world country can produce an atomic weapon what’s to say with some outside help and enough time Iran can’t? And yes they do want them, otherwise they would scrap the program and any sanctions that go with it.
 
Israel just killed 1800 people Gaza basically fish in a barrel, you invaded Iraq on falsified intelligence and killed a damn sight more and you said nothing nor hold anyone accountable yet Iran is the bad guy?

I would suggest is just another player in the "evil" game if we use your criteria.

Yes I believe Iran to be the bad guy. Yes they have killed far more people than Israel and are a terror regime. Yes they just sponsored the overthrow of the government in Yemen. I am using the criteria as defined by the United States government.
 
Israel had their hands full during the latest Gaza war and Israel was forced to make concessions to the Palestinians .
 
1) What Israel did in Gaza was justified : Gaza was used as a base for attacks on Israel

That is certainly the Israeli side of the story however "who started what" is somewhat more complex than that after all Gaza fishermen were being attacked before Hamas fired a single rocket and Israeli troops were rounding up anyone in the West Bank that owned some green cloth under the justification of recovering 3 kidnapped squatters that they already knew were dead.

2)The US attack on Iraq was also justified,that the intelligence reports were not correct,is irrelevant .

Bollocks.
You are arguing that it is acceptable to make up intelligence to start a war, I am not sure you will get too many backers on this one and even less if they are required to prove their sanity.
 
So when we denied the U.K. support in developing nuclear weapons did that work?

Did we stop the Chinese and later the Pakistani's?


There are far more sworn enemies in Pakistan, a nuclear state mind you than in Iran par Iran's politicians who disagree with us.

I am not stupid, it's hogwash on both sides. American statesmen want us to believe those dirty Iranians want world conquest.

Iranian statesmen want them to believe the American imperialists will rape and kill them all at any given chance.

And the more we both act so asinine the sooner we prove both parties right. Which is what we are doing.


You wanna know the biggest benefit for Iran having a nuclear program? Because of this conversation right now, by far Iran has garnered more sway in regional politics with it's supposed nuclear program and accomplished more just by having something to hold over the west's heads.

Iranian leaders know this, and know American foreign policy maker's think their own citizens so damn naive that every time some trade deal on the back page of the New York Times gets heated between Iran and China, they pull the old: It's time for nuclear talks America- Card.

And you know what, by this point Iran's nuclear program has already paid for itself as one of the most useful tools of mass distraction in their court right now.

They don't want to contest us in open combat, because they know they will lose the fight, more importantly lose power.

Don't get me wrong I am 100% confident if we ever invaded Iran we would only manage to fail at nation building and screw the country all up into some terrorist backwater haven regardless.

But that's what you do when can't win by force on Iran's part.

As for the Israeli question, whens the last time an hurricane or power outage during winter here stateside ever gotten a single care package from Israel?

So why should my loved ones and neighbors die for them ?
 
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So when we denied the U.K. support in developing nuclear weapons did that work?

Did we stop the Chinese and later the Pakistani's?


There are far more sworn enemies in Pakistan, a nuclear state mind you than in Iran par Iran's politicians who disagree with us.

I am not stupid, it's hogwash on both sides. American statesmen want us to believe those dirty Iranians want world conquest.

Iranian statesmen want them to believe the American imperialists will rape and kill them all at any given chance.

And the more we both act so asinine the sooner we prove both parties right. Which is what we are doing.


You wanna know the biggest benefit for Iran having a nuclear program? Because of this conversation right now, by far Iran has garnered more sway in regional politics with it's supposed nuclear program and accomplished more just by having something to hold over the west's heads.

Iranian leaders know this, and know American foreign policy maker's think their own citizens so damn naive that every time some trade deal on the back page of the New York Times gets heated between Iran and China, they pull the old: It's time for nuclear talks America- Card.

And you know what, by this point Iran's nuclear program has already paid for itself as one of the most useful tools of mass distraction in their court right now.

They don't want to contest us in open combat, because they know they will lose the fight, more importantly lose power.

Don't get me wrong I am 100% confident if we ever invaded Iran we would only manage to fail at nation building and screw the country all up into some terrorist backwater haven regardless.

But that's what you do when can't win by force on Iran's part.

As for the Israeli question, whens the last time an hurricane or power outage during winter here stateside ever gotten a single care package from Israel?

So why should my loved ones and neighbors die for them ?

The enemies in Pakistan aren’t nor ever have been in charge, thank goodness.
The US has never advocated that Iran desires world conquest. Iran wants to control – destabilize portions of the Mideast and Israel via terrorism and subversion. They support Hezbollah and the recent guerrillas that overthrew Yemen (who are in the process of installing an anti American government). I’m not sure what Iranian statesmen are presently presenting to their public. I remember the US as being presented as the great Satan a while back. Unlike the US alternate viewpoints are forbidden in Iran. Something that is allowed in Israel BTW. Iran has nothing to fear in the way of a US ground attack. If we did ever do make a move it would be via Bombers using bunker buster bombs that can drill down ½ mile down to take out their nuclear facilities. Personally I don’t think these talks have had much effect on Iran except to maintain the sanctions which are inconvenient to Iran and make it look like the president is doing something.
 
The enemies in Pakistan aren’t nor ever have been in charge, thank goodness.
The US has never advocated that Iran desires world conquest. Iran wants to control – destabilize portions of the Mideast and Israel via terrorism and subversion. They support Hezbollah and the recent guerrillas that overthrew Yemen (who are in the process of installing an anti American government). I’m not sure what Iranian statesmen are presently presenting to their public. I remember the US as being presented as the great Satan a while back. Unlike the US alternate viewpoints are forbidden in Iran. Something that is allowed in Israel BTW. Iran has nothing to fear in the way of a US ground attack. If we did ever do make a move it would be via Bombers using bunker buster bombs that can drill down ½ mile down to take out their nuclear facilities. Personally I don’t think these talks have had much effect on Iran except to maintain the sanctions which are inconvenient to Iran and make it look like the president is doing something.

Wow I didn't think it is possible to throw any more propaganda into a paragraph than that, it is the equivalent of the school yard "you cant make me" argument.

You don't like Iran because they are doing exactly the same thing Israel and the USA are doing in to the middle east only they are becoming more effective at it, so rather than analyse it properly the western response is to throw money and weapons at unpopular governments and sanction Iran who will simply fall back on Russian support and close off communication channels ensuring we have another 70 years of a cold war to bankrupt you even further.

It is pleasing to see that we learned nothing in the last 100 years of gunboat diplomacy.
 
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