Originally Posted by AussieNick

It's easy to talk big.

But really, most people wouldn't do squat, because in truth... it's uncomfortable and difficult. There is a 99% chance you would say "Bugger it, life's not so bad under the rule of *insert nation here*"



Thats not survival instinct. That is a suicidal tendency.

Yea most might not do anything, but a lot of us have nowhere else to go,
bring it.

Well, there are lot of problems on ambushing enemy patrols.

1. Terrain.
   • Forests are good for hiding and/or establishing of guerrilla base, but there is limited possibilities to engage patrols - you can not engage them from a far distance with a sniper fire, to see enemy you should be very near the edge of forest. Which means you have quite poor chance to retreat after attack, if you are acting alone. Moreover, enemy can mine roadsides with `Dragontooth` type anti-infantry mines... you won't see them in a grass, and they plastic container will be impossible to locate with metal detector...
   • Rocky and/or desert terrain is good for long-range sniper attacks, but there is no concealment to make a base, there is no concealment to hide from the enemy aircraft.
2. Surviving. It is not enough just to leave your home, enter the forest/mountains and ambush enemies. You need water, food, place for rest, without any of it - you are dead of captured. Or, if you are very lucky - only incapable to fight...
3. Knowing of terrain - you need to know terrain where you are planning to operate. Without it you do not have serious advantages over enemy - there is a danger to retreat in a deadlock...

For example me as inhabitant of suburban area of ~1 million city... I have problems with ALL of these factors, even if I had an assault rifle and strong will to fight. I have a square 2x2 miles of forest on over side of street, but there is no water in that forest and forest is almost just like park... I have a pretty good knowledge of my suburb, but that could not help me much if I have to stand against invaders.

Originally Posted by Supostat

Well, there are lot of problems on ambushing enemy patrols.

1. Terrain.
   • Forests are good for hiding and/or establishing of guerrilla base, but there is limited possibilities to engage patrols - you can not engage them from a far distance with a sniper fire, to see enemy you should be very near the edge of forest. Which means you have quite poor chance to retreat after attack, if you are acting alone. Moreover, enemy can mine roadsides with `Dragontooth` type anti-infantry mines... you won't see them in a grass, and they plastic container will be impossible to locate with metal detector...
   • Rocky and/or desert terrain is good for long-range sniper attacks, but there is no concealment to make a base, there is no concealment to hide from the enemy aircraft.
2. Surviving. It is not enough just to leave your home, enter the forest/mountains and ambush enemies. You need water, food, place for rest, without any of it - you are dead of captured. Or, if you are very lucky - only incapable to fight...
3. Knowing of terrain - you need to know terrain where you are planning to operate. Without it you do not have serious advantages over enemy - there is a danger to retreat in a deadlock...

For example me as inhabitant of suburban area of ~1 million city... I have problems with ALL of these factors, even if I had an assault rifle and strong will to fight. I have a square 2x2 miles of forest on over side of street, but there is no water in that forest and forest is almost just like park... I have a pretty good knowledge of my suburb, but that could not help me much if I have to stand against invaders.

I live in a mainly farmland area with a lot of trees. Plus if you do stage guerrilla tactics in your area, you should know the place by heart, unless you live under a rock...

I live in an area with lots of small mountains and most of the area is either forest thick enough that you cannot shoot past 100 yards or wetlands and swamps which would be hard to move through without a boat. But, if you were trained well enough and had a rifle capable there are many, many spots where you could shoot off the side of the mountains and get away assuming the bad guys don't have people around you.

Still, any civilians would have very bad odds against a well trained military. I don't think I could do much but I'd have to try because I love this country.

I think this is falling into the realms of fantasy.

Tell me how long do you think you would survive against your own military?

Because what you are talking about is fighting an occupation force that has already either defeated your military or at least driven them out of the area.

People need to dispel the idea that "Red Dawn" was a training film and understand that it was little more than patriotic fantasy and comedic relief for the rest of the world.

Survival isn't a requirement. It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

Edit Upon Further Contemplation: If it ever got so bad that the US was under threat of invasion, I'm fairly certain that I would've volunteered or been drafted by then. Also, one of the reasons I couldn't deal with an occupation is because I've heard first hand accounts about what it was like in Lithuania from relatives, and seen the basement of the KGB HQ in Vilnius. The things that are done to the population of an occupied country are truly horrible. And America is more than a land or even the people, it's an ideal that I stand by.

Originally Posted by MontyB

I think this is falling into the realms of fantasy.

Tell me how long do you think you would survive against your own military?

Because what you are talking about is fighting an occupation force that has already either defeated your military or at least driven them out of the area.

People need to dispel the idea that "Red Dawn" was a training film and understand that it was little more than patriotic fantasy and comedic relief for the rest of the world.

Cheers, reality checks are in need. But then again, it's harmless for 15 year olds to dream about fighting the Ruskis in South Carolina. Big bad Boris is clearly looking to seize the key terrain in rural America.

Unfortunately, the USA economy is going down the drain because of many factors, noteably the housing market crisis, the banks, and such. With a weakining economy, Americans aren't the strong resilient people they used to be in the cold war era. More and more people are fatter, lazier and hate their country which spelled death to the romans (the fatter and lazier part).
Americans we're feared by their enemies, now they're constantly taunted. I still don't understand why are we treating these insurgents so darn well, I mean the geneva code doesn't apply to them (since they don't have a uniform) and they'll exicute us on live TV and drag us down the street in our underwear to get brutally mutulated. Seriously, wars aren't won like this, we need to get down and downright dirty with these people (insurgents).
With an attitude of too much sympathy, a weakining economy, and fat and lazy country hating americans, I feel it's coming.

When the civilian body count mounts up, people will get their crap together. Until then, we must tolerate bulls*it.

Originally Posted by Cdt Matteo

Americans we're feared by their enemies, now they're constantly taunted. I still don't understand why are we treating these insurgents so darn well, I mean the geneva code doesn't apply to them (since they don't have a uniform) and they'll exicute us on live TV and drag us down the street in our underwear to get brutally mutulated. Seriously, wars aren't won like this, we need to get down and downright dirty with these people (insurgents).
With an attitude of too much sympathy, a weakining economy, and fat and lazy country hating americans, I feel it's coming.

I think people are starting to believe their own hype, can you give examples of when America has been feared by its enemies?

Lets be a little realistic here:
WW2 - The Germans almost always counter attacked the American positions (Kasserine Pass, Ardennes, Normandy), fear didn't hold back Japan in 1941 either.
Korea - Knowing about American involvement did not stop the Russians sending pilots and the Chinese sending troops.
Vietnam - Well we all know how that turned out.
Lebanon - Same deal.
Somalia - Ditto.
Grenada - Even the Cubans fired back
Iraq - Still shooting.

Now this is not a commentary on US troops as in every case listed they performed their duties exceptionally well but it is a strong indicator that fear is not the first response when someone mentions America, if anything I would suggest that for the most part America has been under rated in most cases.