Originally Posted by Team Infidel

And one of the members of this team got 23 years in prison and will testify against the others.... it is taking us forever to prosecute Gitmo dudes....

How many of them are in Gitmo now, because I know it was said by people within the US system that it was strongly suspected that a great many of them were totally innocent and had been handed over by warlords and other persons for no other reason than to get the reward money.

Originally Posted by Team Infidel

just my two cents.

To those that are 'outraged' over the bad choices of a few American Military personnel, please....

"bad choices"? How about mother of all FUBARs? Murdering innocent people is not how you win a war. It is, how ever, how one becomes a war criminal that is worthy of the utmost in disgust.

Originally Posted by Team Infidel

Ask yourself, where was your 'outrage' when these things happened?

And what would our outrage do? Convince the US Senate to actually do something? OTOH, when these are people within the authority of the US, count on us raising a little big of hell.

Originally Posted by Team Infidel

Where was Rolling Stone's self righteousness then?

I dunno.

Originally Posted by Team Infidel

American soldiers do nothing even close to these the above atrocity. I am not saying that this wasn't wrong.....

That is not what I am hearing.

Originally Posted by Team Infidel

And this is a common occurrence. Where's the outrage?

Any such outrage is illegal in the US. It's defined by the USDoJ as a hate crime....

Originally Posted by Team Infidel

Answer: it's all wasted on America's trifling mistakes.

Even if we gave these guys life sentences, we're talking about a place that stones and hangs people over smaller stuff.
Even if the locals believed that these guys were locked away for good, it would seem like they're getting away with a slap on the wrist.
The message they recieve: To us, you're not even people.

Originally Posted by A Can of Man

Even if we gave these guys life sentences, we're talking about a place that stones and hangs people over smaller stuff.
Even if the locals believed that these guys were locked away for good, it would seem like they're getting away with a slap on the wrist.
The message they recieve: To us, you're not even people.

It's really hard for me to tell the difference right now. Expect that they get the same basic human rights as everyone else, and what happens? When a preacher here stateside expresses his opinion and the opinion of his parishners about islam, the same people I allege have the same basic human rights as everyone else now feels special enough to murder people totally unrelated to the quran burning. Somehow I lost just about every piece of respect for islam after today.

If they don't like America, stay home.
If they don't like the rights Americans have, stay home.
If they feel special enough to wage a conflict against people unrelated to an issue half a world away, expect to get their butts handed to them.

We should quit waging war against the innocent, no matter what the rest of their people do. We cannot justify judging the innocent.
At the same time when they want to wage a war against us, we should hand them their asses.

I would like to add that AFAIC the people that mistreated the prisoners at that Iraqi prison (or any prison for that matter) should be punished the very same way. As for the innocent men that were targeted and tortured by the CIA, I'm sorry about what happened. And AFAIC we should do the same thing to the CIA operatives that they did to the innocent.

BTW, an interesting video I viewed earlier-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zok8y...mbedded#at=212

Originally Posted by GHR

War unfortunately contains all the ingredients needed to create mentally callous and sick people.

But that should not excuse their actions - giant idiots!

In time a soldier may grow a soul, but here (in battle), the thing’s best left at home. Wilfred Owen

Originally Posted by -- Dusty

It's really hard for me to tell the difference right now. Expect that they get the same basic human rights as everyone else, and what happens? When a preacher here stateside expresses his opinion and the opinion of his parishners about islam, the same people I allege have the same basic human rights as everyone else now feels special enough to murder people totally unrelated to the quran burning. Somehow I lost just about every piece of respect for islam after today.

If they don't like America, stay home.
If they don't like the rights Americans have, stay home.
If they feel special enough to wage a conflict against people unrelated to an issue half a world away, expect to get their butts handed to them.

We should quit waging war against the innocent, no matter what the rest of their people do. We cannot justify judging the innocent.
At the same time when they want to wage a war against us, we should hand them their asses.

Ahh but you see, it is THEIR country.

So they punish people totally unrelated to the events in America, because Americans exercise their God-given & Constitutionally-protected rights? Boy, if that don't take the cake. What's next? Car bombing a pre-school because they don't like who we vote into office in the next election?

Originally Posted by -- Dusty

It's really hard for me to tell the difference right now. Expect that they get the same basic human rights as everyone else, and what happens? When a preacher here stateside expresses his opinion and the opinion of his parishners about islam, the same people I allege have the same basic human rights as everyone else now feels special enough to murder people totally unrelated to the quran burning. Somehow I lost just about every piece of respect for islam after today.

If they don't like America, stay home.
If they don't like the rights Americans have, stay home.
If they feel special enough to wage a conflict against people unrelated to an issue half a world away, expect to get their butts handed to them.

We should quit waging war against the innocent, no matter what the rest of their people do. We cannot justify judging the innocent.
At the same time when they want to wage a war against us, we should hand them their asses.

dude ... i'm kind of lost in here .... on which "accident" you're referring to ....

anyway ... are you listens to every wacko words on the streets ?? jeeez ... never thought that one could be so naive and pure

Originally Posted by -- Dusty

So they punish people totally unrelated to the events in America, because Americans exercise their God-given & Constitutionally-protected rights? Boy, if that don't take the cake. What's next? Car bombing a pre-school because they don't like who we vote into office in the next election?

you may not want to believe this ..... from what i heard and see .... if you are refer on 9/11 ..... things are way way deeper than just that .... they are simply going for the root ( which in this case is the US statehood ... ) because they can't afford do it on the military base/site , they prey on the weakest target available ( it's guerilla if you forget the tactic ) which is all the innocent people on board that planes ... cowardice ?? yes ... even the hardliners in here curse that ...

and soon after the taleeban get ousted .... things got worsts ... altough most of the hardliners here stands neutral ... some get more radicalized and goes for bali bombing series ... and they didn't even know whose sarah palin is ....

and all of this ... it may sound like a repeated broken CD ... but others than this .. nothing is logical more for the sense of mind ... all came from the ambiguity if not a favour on israel-palestine conflict ... ( hell.... this going to be a long long fight of words )

they don't give a **** whose gonna runs the office ... for this i assure you ... as long as no settling on that conflict .... things are going nasty and nastier ... you must understands , from the moslem point of view for what they see in GAZA , IRAK , AFGHANISTAN and WESTBANK is the reflections of pure invasion , deceiptation and exploitation on moslem worlds and by the "code" of moslem brotherhoods you just can't sit by idling while your brothes and sisters get desecrated and you can't kill a beliefs

things are not always black and white ...... dude

Originally Posted by Team Infidel

You know me... just stirring the pot a little...

Then allow me to join you. I like to stir the pot too you know...

And let me tell you one thing sir. You cant compare the mistakes of Al-Quaeda and other religious fanatics with these war crimes.

Read me carefully. I said "mistakes" for the hairy primitive terrorists and I said "war crimes" for these criminals in uniform.

An Al-Quaeda terrorist beheading a foreigner in his country thinks that he is doing a good thing. He is proud of it. He even makes a video and broadcast it.
If you ask him, he will tell you that it's justice. That he executed a criminal. Maybe he believes that, maybe he doesnt... But his actions have a limited legitimacy. We dont approve of their executions, but some religious extremists and even some less extremists locals recognize this kind of actions. After all, fighting an aggressor who is fighting you on your land is very legitimate.

And tell me, when the Mujahideen were killing Soviet prisoners in Afghanistan/Chechnya. Were you calling them terrorists/criminals?

While these US soldiers were hiding their actions, because they knew that what they were doing is wrong.

And the army is responsible if you want my opinion. The "few bad apples" interpretation" isnt convincing if you ask me. Since Vietnam they have a body count BS theory to measure operational success...
They send kids to war as soon as they can carry a gun. They pay huge sums of money to train them to kill, but they dont give them any education to develop a critical sense.
They accept easily people from the poor parts of the population, they accept these people who were refused by society...
They encourage them to be aggressive because it makes them better killers... Add to that all this gansta rap BS, violent movies and video games etc we shovel feed to the young generations... And you get a huge factory for dangerous minds with guns and a license to kill...

We have a huge systemic problem here...

P.S:
-- Dusty, so let me sum it up for you. Some extremist/primitive/intolerant Muslims in Afghanistan attacked people for things they were unrelated to. And you, you lost your respect for the religion of 1.5billion people because of the actions of these (relatively) few extremists?