Okay, Doppleganger and I were on an off-topic discussion about how important Germany was before WWII on the "does anyone think that hitler was a very smart man"-topic. So I thought; Let's make it a topic!
To summarise what was said:

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Com'on guys! There's no doubt that in many ways Hitler was a very smart guy. You just don't gain control of the most important country in Europe

Originally Posted by I

I object! There's no reason to call Germany "the most important country in Europe" I'm not making any claims to which country would earn that title, but I don't think we should use that phrase to describe Germany.

Originally Posted by Then Doppleganger

BTW to answer what I meant by Germany being the most important country in Europe at that time. That is not to say other countries weren't important (I am British after all). But being at the centre of Europe, it's population size and industrial and engineering might, all make it the most important country in Europe in terms of its influence on it's neighbours and the wider world at large.

Originally Posted by So I

I still don't agree (I'm a stubborn man, if I want to be ) The central position of Germany has it's bad sides too. World economy wise, they where in a bad position back then. The best way to ship cargo was by boat. (It still is for large amounts.) Now France, Belgium and the Netherlands all had the upper hand when it came to harbours. And don't forget, back then these countries still had their colonies, so they weren't as small as they appear. And Germany still was suffering under sanctions placed upon them after losing the first WW. No, Germany wasn't at all the important country you say it was.

Originally Posted by In the same post Doppleganger

Let's not get all nationalistic here. Some countries are clearly more important than others in terms of the influence they have on others. That's a fact of life.

Originally Posted by I

Granted, but I wasn't being nationalistic, I just didn't agree with you.. :P

Here ends the summary. Let's get on with the new stuff..

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

You're right to say that the German economy in the Weimar Republic days was in dire straights and that they wre still crippled by the terms of the Versaille Treaty. However, you cannot dispute the fact that since it was united, Germany has always been one of the major influences in Europe.

I'm not disputing that, but the most important one?

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

One only has to look at history to see that the the Holy Roman Empire was sited basically where Germany is today. The geographical position that Germany takes up makes it very important as it sits at the hub of Europe, able to influence it's neighbours both East and West. Germany has access to the coast and therefore shipping lanes, so I don't follow your argument that France, Holland and Belgium were more important simply because they had better harbours.

Rotterdam is still the biggest harbor in the world, and Antwerp is bigger than anything Gernmany has... This doesn't mean that they are more important countries, just that Germany needed them too, and being at the centre of Europe isn't just one big advantage.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Your argument that all these countries had colonies doesn't really hold up either. In the time period we're talking about, colonialism was coming to an end.

Yes, but it hadn't ended yet, so it counts.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

The only nation that really gained a measure of real power from colonies was Great Britain, a nation crippled and scarred by the sacrifices of WW1. France too were not exactly in a great state after WW1 so it wasn't just Germany that was in a period of deep recession - it was Europe wide.
Even if Germany was crippled economically at the time, that geographical position, the population size, it's history and reputation (both good and bad) all made Germany still very important. Why do you think the terms of the Versaille Treaty were so harsh on Germany?

Because they lost.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

It was a measure of the influence that country still generated that made the Allies impose such unworkable terms.

I honestly think that you're letting your own predjudices cloud your opinion, hence the reason why I thought you were being a little nationalistic.

Think all you want, it's just not true. you started off with a bold statement about Germany being "the most important country in Europe" and I disagree. That has nothing to do with prejudices clouding my opinion.

Originally Posted by RnderSafe

Hee hee .. YAY! Oh wait, that's bad. Sorry, continue.

Well despite of what RnderSafe may enjoy, we're just having a discussion here (Yes Marc, about an interesting topic) No war (civil or non-civil) intended.

Ok guys i think here i should come in...
first what periond of time are we talking about?
Just the Weimarer republic?
Right after WWI...or even in the, as we call it, the golden twenties?
Before or after Hitler took over control?
thats important.

and remember..the first sign of euro civil war I and we nuke the topic!

Yes you might want to re-define the terms guys...since the former topic dealt with hitler, can we assume its the importantance of germany in europe from lets say 1919 to 1945?

remember...importance can deal with anything that effected europe at that time. I seem to remember that Germany was the most heavily Industrialised nation during that period, so could manufacturing place it in value or importance above all other nations?

Just asking...

Originally Posted by Mark Conley

Yes you might want to re-define the terms guys...since the former topic dealt with hitler, can we assume its the importantance of germany in europe from lets say 1919 to 1945?

remember...importance can deal with anything that effected europe at that time. I seem to remember that Germany was the most heavily Industrialised nation during that period, so could manufacturing place it in value or importance above all other nations?

Just asking...

We're talking about the moment Hitler took over, which was in Januari 1933. Germany became the most heavily industrialised nation after that, in preparatrion for a war....

Then that answers the question. Germany was very important before WWII.

WOW, 1217, that first post is a serious record breaker...Longest, With most qoutes, and the most people qouted.....

How inportant germany was??After the WWI "we" all had one eye on Germany cuz of the war,so it was in the center of events.
I think that better question is how important Hasburg(which consisted of all german nations:austrians,germans....etc)
monarchy was before first balkan wars(1902-1908 as i remember)

habsburg..the habsburgs were a german royal family where most german and austrian kings came out.
at this time autstria was no part of germany...
there were the austria - hungary kingdom
and the german reich (bismarck and willhelm)