Originally Posted by perseus

Monty, can you find any evidence he was directly responsible for the treatment of forced labour there, or whether he just accepted it since there was nothing he could do? I think there was an occassion were he picked slave labour and regularily attended the factory at Mittelwerk, but he never visited the camp itself

He certainly made one trip to Buchenwald concentration camp to arrange for the transport of more prisoners to Mittelwerkas this is recorded in his letters that have been published recently.

There are also some fairly well researched claims in a book called Wernher von Braun: The Man Who Sold the Moon that he made at least one inspection of Dora in 1944 and participated in administrative meetings at Mittelwerk to discuss bringing in a thousand French laborers, these claims appear to be backed up in Wernher von Braun, the SS, and Concentration Camp Labor: Questions of Moral, Political, and Criminal Responsibility
Michael J. Neufeld
German Studies Review, Vol. 25, No. 1 (Feb., 2002), pp. 57-78

Unfortunately I can't post the articles here as they are from subscription sites.

However perhaps this would be better left for dedicated thread rather than hijacking this one.

Originally Posted by MontyB

While I am certainly not going to condone such actions I do think it worth pointing out that the allies didn't seem to mind a whole lot when they started using the same research after the war nor did it seem to be a great issue when they were recruiting German scientists, doctors and engineers after the war.
Just look at the case of Wernher von Braun most people seem to have forgotten his past at Mittelbau-Dora out of preference to post war exploits.

Here we go again. The thread is about HITLER, not the German people.
Again - the essence of the evil is the conducting of DEATH camps, as a special project of deliberate genocide. This is where he beats all comers in the stakes, and he never made any secret of his ideals and plans. QAs his deputy Hess reiterated at Nuremburg - 'I regret nothing'. Why rebuild the monsters. Personally, I would not dirty my hands. But then, I have the weakness of being emotional, and therefore the purely academic does not always wash with me, as compared with conscience.

I think Hitler brings out the statement to the full about, "Power corrupts, total power corrupts fully"
Churchill and Roosevelt were still constrained by the Public and the ballot box, where as Hitler wasn't and there was no one to reign him in

Originally Posted by Del Boy

Here we go again. The thread is about HITLER, not the German people.
Again - the essence of the evil is the conducting of DEATH camps, as a special project of deliberate genocide. This is where he beats all comers in the stakes, and he never made any secret of his ideals and plans. QAs his deputy Hess reiterated at Nuremburg - 'I regret nothing'. Why rebuild the monsters. Personally, I would not dirty my hands. But then, I have the weakness of being emotional, and therefore the purely academic does not always wash with me, as compared with conscience.

I take it you missed this addition to the second post?

However perhaps this would be better left for dedicated thread rather than hijacking this one.

Originally Posted by LeEnfield

I think Hitler brings out the statement to the full about, "Power corrupts, total power corrupts fully"
Churchill and Roosevelt were still constrained by the Public and the ballot box, where as Hitler wasn't and there was no one to reign him in

Its certainly applicable but I am not sure its accurate, I tend to think his actions more cult like than corrupt I think its far easier to compare him to the Jim Jones and David Koresh's of the world.

No -didn't miss it.

The Holocaust is also a horrible capital which has not been clarified. Of the millions who died, many lost their lives while working in factories bombed by allied planes, although the governments concerned knew forced labour was being used at the time. Here just to put the blame on to one country, is to say the least, more than dishonest. By the way, Hitler's crazed mind was probably a result of being gassed in WW1. He won an award for bravery on the front line, but lost his sight for many weeks.

Ah yes, of those 12,000,000 killed damn near 12,000 were killed in bombing raids on factories by those vile, pig headed Americans. Do you know that Israel condemns the actions by the Allies from WWII for NOT doing enough to stop the Holocaust? Their argument is that the allies knew about the Holocaust but never once bombed one of the camps where this was happening to put a stop or at least stall the slaughter. The allied defense? We would have killed 1,000 people bombing those buildings. Israel's response: You would have saved ten times that number. How many were killed in that factory that was producing Panzer IV's and Tigers and how many more would have been killed if those factors could have continued producing weapons of war unmolested and delaying the end of the war another day, week or month?

If Osama bin Laden builds a daycare center on top of his command post and we bomb it anyways are we the *******s for killing those kids or is the jackass who tried to use them as a human shield the *******?

Hitler's hatred for Jews wasn't a product of a gas attack in WWI, it was a product of several millennia of antisemitism worldwide. It was a product of living in a world where hatred towards Jews was common and accepted. Most of all it was a product of his crazed beliefs that said Jews are sub-human and a parasitic race, found in many countries around the world but unable to form their own homeland, they feed off of the success of the stronger, pure races. True, Hitler did not want to kill all Jews right from the start, he just wanted them out of the Reich, so they tried to leave but France and England had quotas on the numbers of Jews they would let emigrate into their countries every year, Russia was kicking Jews out and in Poland Jews made up a sizable minority, but a minority nonetheless. The only nation that didn't have quotas on Jewish emigration was the United States, but being shielded by 3,000 miles of ocean meant that few Jews who had just lost most of their possessions to their neighbors or the Nazi government could afford to make the trip, so the quotas weren't necessary. Make no mistake about it, there is no rationalizing Hitler's actions or passing the blame, Hitler was involved in every step of the process from the decision to use antisemitic rhetoric to gain public support and eventually end up in office to the calm manner in which the Nazi hierarchy gathered in Wannsee, a suburb of Berlin, and planned the "Final Solution to the Jewish Question". There is no justification of these actions, there is no explaining it away as society's impact on the delicate male psyche, there is no shifting the blame. Hitler, Himmler, Heydrich and Eichmann are all responsible for their actions and them alone. In July 2004 I joined the Army with a kid who's last name is Eichmann, his great-uncle was the man who invented the process that would kill millions of Jews as well as other "undesirables" in the concentration camps. If he doesn't make any excuses for his great-uncles actions, what the hell makes you think you have the right to do so?

Damien has it straight and true. This man has spelled it out, listen to him.

Originally Posted by Ollie Garchy

I might have hooted too much glue in my time, but I want to know what Hilter (read Nazi Germany) did that was sooooooo bad.

Most important thing that WW2 started because of Hitler decisions. International society of that time could excuse him killing Jews and other `untermensch` people just like it excused Soviet Union for its crimes against humanity, just because entire West World had fresh memories of WW1 and no one wanted another great, annihilating war. Therefore there was also excuse of violation of international relations, i.e. occupation of Czechoslovakia by Germany.

If Hitler hadn't decide to expand the `Great Reich` over territories of other states/countries, the WW2 most likely won't be started. Even with full-scale holocaust in Germany.

Hitler was person, who started the chain of events which eventually lead to WW2. That's the main reason of his `badness`.

Originally Posted by Supostat

Most important thing that WW2 started because of Hitler decisions.

There would have been another world war after WW1, Hitler or no Hitler. Hitler was a sign of the times, not a cause of it.

Originally Posted by Supostat

If Hitler hadn't decide to expand the `Great Reich` over territories of other states/countries, the WW2 most likely won't be started. Even with full-scale holocaust in Germany.

If Hitler hadn't been around there was still Josef Stalin to contend with.

Originally Posted by Supostat

Hitler was person, who started the chain of events which eventually lead to WW2. That's the main reason of his `badness`.

Hitler, in a sense, was born in the wrong time. Had he been born in 300BC, 400AD or 1200AD, we'd be reading about the 'great conquerer' Adolf Hitler in our history books, instead of the inhuman monster he is known as today. He did nothing worse than what his predecessors did - the main difference was the scale.

Originally Posted by Supostat

Most important thing that WW2 started because of Hitler decisions.

Perhaps the European war, what about the Pacific theatre? It has been said that either would have happened without the other.