http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061031/D8L3SP200.html
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RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - A heckler who confronted Sen. George Allen at a campaign appearance Tuesday was put in a chokehold and slammed to the floor by three of the Republican's supporters in an incident captured on video.
Mike Stark, a liberal blogger and first-year University of Virginia law student, approached Allen at an event in Charlottesville, loudly asking, "Why did you spit at your first wife, George?" according to witnesses.
Three men, all wearing blue Allen lapel stickers, immediately grabbed Stark, dragged him backward and slung him to the carpet outside a hotel meeting room, according to video captured by WVIR-TV in Charlottesville.
Stark said later in a telephone interview with The Associated Press: "I am a constituent. I am allowed to ask my U.S. senator questions."
A new statewide poll conducted for CNN showed Allen's Democratic challenger, former Navy Secretary Jim Webb, with a slight lead in a bitterly contested race that could help determine whether the GOP retains control of the Senate.
In a Monday posting on "Calling All Wingnuts," the blog Stark publishes, he hinted that he would attempt to provoke Allen before the TV cameras.
"Im also trying to 'Roger and Me' George Allen whenever I can," Stark wrote, referring to director Michael Moore's 1989 documentary in which he repeatedly tried to confront former General Motors' chief executive Roger Smith about the company's downsizing.
In August, Stark similarly approached Allen after a speech at a hotel near Staunton, loudly asking if he had ever used a common six-letter epithet against blacks. That was two weeks after Allen, at a rally, referred to a Webb volunteer of Indian descent as "Macaca," which is considered by some to be a racial slur.

So he's NOT allowed to ask his Senator questions?

Its not what was asked but HOW he asked it. Hiding behind free speech doesn't change someone's oral manure into aural flowers. Nor does the right to speak to your representative translate into a right to be abusive or engage in ad hominem attacks.

Originally Posted by C/1Lt Henderson

So he's NOT allowed to ask his Senator questions?

I'd say that if you were combative when you asked the question or was asking an obvious baiting question that you might be considered to be asking in the wrong setting. He's lucky the cameras were there, the security people might of beat the crap out of him for asking a question like that should they have had anonimity.

I saw the video on TV, he wasnt combative in fact he didnt even get to finish his statement before the GOP SA goon squad tackled him. In fact if you watch the video he didnt put up any struggle or defense at all. He was not threatening Mr Allen in anyway.

This isnt the 3rd Reich, you dont have the right to put your hands on some for asking a question, even if the question is one the candidate doesnt want to answer. If Allen didnt want to answer he should have A) ignored him B) get his security to escort Mr Stark away C) Answered Starks question. They chose D) Physical Assault.

Only Law Enforcement has the right to physically assault people, political goons do not. Stark just wrote on his blog today that he is pressing assault charges...

Originally Posted by mmarsh

I saw the video on TV, he wasnt combative in fact he didnt even get to finish his statement before the GOP SA goon squad tackled him. In fact if you watch the video he didnt put up any struggle or defense at all. He was not threatening Mr Allen in anyway.

This isnt the 3rd Reich, you dont have the right to put your hands on some for asking a question, even if the question is one the candidate doesnt want to answer. If Allen didnt want to answer he should have A) ignored him B) get his security to escort Mr Stark away C) Answered Starks question. They chose D) Physical Assault.

Only Law Enforcement has the right to physically assault people, political goons do not. Stark just wrote on his blog today that he is pressing assault charges...

What did this guy say on his blog BEFORE he went to the event? His action was pre-meditated and meant to be derogative towards Mr. Allen.

I'm sure the guys there weren't just "locals" that were there. They were more than likely on the floor to watch for whacko's and this guy fit the bill.

It isn't assult, it was restraint. There is a difference between "arrest" and "detaining". Do a little research and find out what the guys that hauled him out of the room.

I find your "GOP SA Goon Squad" comment very offensive.

If someine attacks you wife/girlfriend/mother, whether it be physical or verbal are you going to stand by and not take action? If so you might be considered a wuss, if you act you are commiting agrivated assult according to your beliefs as outlined above. Can't have it both ways Alice.

[quote=Senior Chief;262146]What did this guy say on his blog BEFORE he went to the event? His action was pre-meditated and meant to be derogative towards Mr. Allen.

I agree, but being deragatory doesnt justify violence. Allen is a public figure if he cannot deal with a heckler or two without sending the Thugs he's in the wrong job. There are plenty of GOP hecklers that come to Democrats events. They are told to behave but they arn't physically assaulted.

I'm sure the guys there weren't just "locals" that were there. They were more than likely on the floor to watch for whacko's and this guy fit the bill.

The problem is the GOP definition of wacko means 'anybody who criticizes or disagrees'. The GOP have gotten so weak skinned they simply cannot handle dissent anymore

It isn't assult, it was restraint. There is a difference between "arrest" and "detaining". Do a little research and find out what the guys that hauled him out of the room.

Call it whatever you want, only Law Enforcement has the power to restrain people. GOP political consultants are not cops, if they were this would not be an issue. The only way they could possible justify themselves is if Stark was threatening Allen. Which is not the case. The Law is on Stark's side.

I find your "GOP SA Goon Squad" comment very offensive.

I find it totally appripriate. The SA in 1930's went around beating people up who disagreed with the Nazis. Sound familiar? Its simple, if you dont want your party to be associated with Nazis thugs then don't act like one. (I am not referring to you specifically).

If someine attacks you wife/girlfriend/mother, whether it be physical or verbal are you going to stand by and not take action? If so you might be considered a wuss, if you act you are commiting agrivated assult according to your beliefs as outlined above. Can't have it both ways Alice.

First of all is wasn't an attack it was a question. Stark did not attack Allen in any way. Stark asked a question that was embarrassing, damaging to Allen chance at reelection, and I'm sure Allen didnt want to answer it but it was still a valid question. Secondly there is a major difference between a private vs a public figure. As I said if a Public figure cannot deal with a protester hes in the wrong job.

[quote=mmarsh;262150]

Originally Posted by Senior Chief

What did this guy say on his blog BEFORE he went to the event? His action was pre-meditated and meant to be derogative towards Mr. Allen.

I agree, but being deragatory doesnt justify violence. Allen is a public figure if he cannot deal with a heckler or two without sending the Thugs he's in the wrong job. There are plenty of GOP hecklers that come to Democrats events. They are told to behave but they arn't physically assaulted.

I'm sure the guys there weren't just "locals" that were there. They were more than likely on the floor to watch for whacko's and this guy fit the bill.

The problem is the GOP definition of wacko means 'anybody who criticizes or disagrees'. The GOP have gotten so weak skinned they simply cannot handle dissent anymore

It isn't assult, it was restraint. There is a difference between "arrest" and "detaining". Do a little research and find out what the guys that hauled him out of the room.

Call it whatever you want, only Law Enforcement has the power to restrain people. GOP political consultants are not cops, if they were this would not be an issue. The only way they could possible justify themselves is if Stark was threatening Allen. Which is not the case. The Law is on Stark's side.

I find your "GOP SA Goon Squad" comment very offensive.

I find it totally appripriate. The SA in 1930's went around beating people up who disagreed with the Nazis. Sound familiar? Its simple, if you dont want your party to be associated with Nazis thugs then don't act like one. (I am not referring to you specifically).

If someine attacks you wife/girlfriend/mother, whether it be physical or verbal are you going to stand by and not take action? If so you might be considered a wuss, if you act you are commiting agrivated assult according to your beliefs as outlined above. Can't have it both ways Alice.

First of all is wasn't an attack it was a question. Stark did not attack Allen in any way. Stark asked a question that was embarrassing, damaging to Allen chance at reelection, and I'm sure Allen didnt want to answer it but it was still a valid question. Secondly there is a major difference between a private vs a public figure. As I said if a Public figure cannot deal with a protester hes in the wrong job.

All of your responses follow the democratic party line and sound just as absurd now as they ever have.

I am not law enforcement but I have the right to detain someone, with force if necessary, to make a citizens arrest. You equating the GOP to the storm troopers of old is ludicrious.

Have you ever volunteered to be a security guard for any public event? If so have you ever forcibly removed someone from an area where they shouldn't be? I don't think you have the first clue as to what is proper force and what is not.

Most of my life has been as an engineer. I have volunteered as an auxiliary policeman in the city I live in. I have stood security watches over special munitions. I have been the head of security for many concerts with big name stars, and I have stood as an LCPO in charge of Anti-Terrorism/Force Protection details. I'm pretty aware of what can and cannot be done. The guys were doing what they felt necessary to remove a possible threat. The guy had motives based on his blog and was looking for trouble when he went to the event. If he presses charges the judge will dismiss them rather quickly.

All of your responses follow the democratic party line and sound just as absurd now as they ever have.

And yet the Democrats are likely to win at least one, perhaps both Houses next week. This absurdity must be contagious.

I am not law enforcement but I have the right to detain someone, with force if necessary, to make a citizens arrest. You equating the GOP to the storm troopers of old is ludicrious.

Then you would know that Citizens arrest is a very slippery slope. It is tolerated, but heavily critized practice. Some States ban it completely like North Carolina and of the states that permit it its only permitted if a Felony is being committed or in the presence of a police officer. A person executing a Citizens arrest can be held for both civil and criminal charges in certain cases. I have yet to see anybody successfully make a citizens arrest for restraining a political protester.

Have you ever volunteered to be a security guard for any public event? If so have you ever forcibly removed someone from an area where they shouldn't be? I don't think you have the first clue as to what is proper force and what is not.

First of all, dont pretend to have a general understanding about proper force. Like the Citizens arrest, States have very different interpretations of what is and is not legal. I sincerely doubt you have knowledge of every states criminal code. What's kosher in Oklahoma may not be in New York or Ohio.

Your example only works in case of Criminal tresspass, or in the case of a private/public event. This is not the case. Stark confronted Allen in the lobby of a Public building. Secondly there rules about the actual type of restraint permitted. Not even the police are allowed apply a choke hold. Your anology is totally off base.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

All of your responses follow the democratic party line and sound just as absurd now as they ever have.

And yet the Democrats are likely to win at least one, perhaps both Houses next week. This absurdity must be contagious.

I am not law enforcement but I have the right to detain someone, with force if necessary, to make a citizens arrest. You equating the GOP to the storm troopers of old is ludicrious.

Then you would know that Citizens arrest is a very slippery slope. It is tolerated, but heavily critized practice. Some States ban it completely like North Carolina and of the states that permit it its only permitted if a Felony is being committed or in the presence of a police officer. A person executing a Citizens arrest can be held for both civil and criminal charges in certain cases. I have yet to see anybody successfully make a citizens arrest for restraining a political protester.

Have you ever volunteered to be a security guard for any public event? If so have you ever forcibly removed someone from an area where they shouldn't be? I don't think you have the first clue as to what is proper force and what is not.

First of all, dont pretend to have a general understanding about proper force. Like the Citizens arrest, States have very different interpretations of what is and is not legal. I sincerely doubt you have knowledge of every states criminal code. What's kosher in Oklahoma may not be in New York or Ohio.

Your example only works in case of Criminal tresspass, private security is allowed to restrain a person if he is in an area hes not allowed to be in. This is not the case. Stark confronted Allen in the lobby of a Public building. Your anology is totally off base.

I have to answer the last comment you made. Allen is a public figure and has more protections that the common American when it comes to protection.

I guess you put me in my place. I guess my state practices might be unacceptable in some states, I haven't found one yet that objects to citizens arrest, but then I've only had the opportunity to do it in 48 of the 50. Just for your information, the first place I ever made a citizens arrest was in the state of New York and I used reasonable force to subdue the person and handcuffed him. Your knowledge of the subject is very questionable.

In any case, you are speaking from opinion, I'm speaking from experience. Believe what you will, facts can't be changed due to someone's opinion.