Originally Posted by Dark_Mark

Terrorism? It's funny how it's only considered terrorism when you use a car bomb, a suicide bomber, or take "hostages" (which are really POW's at this point). The truth is both sides of this conflict are guilty of terrorism.

I wonder how you would feel if someone gave half of your land away to foreigners whos only claim to was that they had it 1000 years ago. But then again moving many jews back to the holy land seemed like a good idea at the time...

There are significant idealogical differences between the military wing and the political wing of Hamas. When the political wing tries to resolve things peacefully, the military wing tries to solve things militarily, and vice versa.

No Israel is a democratic state fighting islamic jihadist and I wish US and UK could learn a bit from Israelis' way of dealing with terrorists.

Israel is not a terrorist state and it is committed to the rule of law when fighting those ba$tard suicide bombers

Get your facts straight before posting dude!

Originally Posted by Dark_Mark

I wonder how you would feel if someone gave half of your land away to foreigners whos only claim to was that they had it 1000 years ago. But then again moving many jews back to the holy land seemed like a good idea at the time...

When Palestine was divided in 1947/48, the Jewish immigration had already been going for 70 years! Many of those people had been living there for decades already and they had nowhere they could have been sent back to. Actually the claims of most arab inhabitants are as strong or as weak as those of the jews because most arabs had only immigrated to Palestine after the first jewish immigration waves created an economic upsurge. Before 1880, Palestine was very sparsely populated, an economically weak Hinterland to Syria.

Originally Posted by loki

I really dont get it. For the last week the news was all: Hamas has now agreed with Fatah for some kind of peace plan, Hamas will accept Israels right to exist, in exchange for a Palestinian state and so forth. And now they kidnap an Israeli and cause an Israeli invasion. How does that fit in with their plan? Is that supposed to make any sense? The way I see it, those guys are either totally nuts or terribly disorganized. In any case, if they get their own state, it will probably become the next Somalia.

As it had been already mentioned, there are divisions within the HAMAS.
Those people who are involved in the government, can't work fruitfully as a government of the Palestinian people without Israel's help. And they won't get it if the PA won't recognize Israel.
However, there are others, especially, living in exile(e.g. Syria) who don't have this problem. They continue their "holy war". I believe, it was their attempt to stop that deal from happening on the first place.

Originally Posted by phoenix80

No Israel is a democratic state fighting islamic jihadist and I wish US and UK could learn a bit from Israelis' way of dealing with terrorists.

Israel is not a terrorist state and it is committed to the rule of law when fighting those ba$tard suicide bombers

Get your facts straight before posting dude!

Facts? Those resemble opinions.

So Hamas rules over an autocracy? The fact is there are plenty of innocent Palestinians in Israeli jails. None of them are called "hostages."

Both sides of this conflict have committed acts of terrorism. Israeli laser-guided bombs have killed plenty of innocent Palestinians, just like Palestinian suicide bombers have killed plenty of innocent Israelis.

I thought Palestine was inhabited by arabs since roughly the time of Mohammed, no?

Originally Posted by Dark_Mark

Facts? Those resemble opinions.

So Hamas rules over an autocracy? The fact is there are plenty of innocent Palestinians in Israeli jails. None of them are called "hostages."

Both sides of this conflict have committed acts of terrorism. Israeli laser-guided bombs have killed plenty of innocent Palestinians, just like Palestinian suicide bombers have killed plenty of innocent Israelis.

I thought Palestine was inhabited by arabs since roughly the time of Mohammed, no?

DM please try to get your facts straight ... at the time of the partition, Jews had been gathering in that portion of the area in what is now Israel for at least 70 years and the area was mostly Jewish. It was because of Jewish efforts that the property was worth more than 2 cents an acre. This contributed to the decision to cede the land to the Jews for a new Jewish state ... up until that time the 'Palestinians' were NOT making much of an attempt to develop the land.

The Jewish people had as much claim to the land as the Palestinians did ... the predominate population at that time was Jewish.

As far as the historical imperatives, Jews were inhabiting those lands as long as the arabs ... if not longer.

So, because Jews had been moving there for 70 years and they were "developing" the land that gives them the right to steal it?

Well, I guess it really was the British who caused this... but still, I can't help but feel sorry for the Palestinians. They really have no other options because they lack an organized military.

Originally Posted by major liability

So, because Jews had been moving there for 70 years and they were "developing" the land that gives them the right to steal it?

Well, I guess it really was the British who caused this... but still, I can't help but feel sorry for the Palestinians. They really have no other options because they lack an organized military.

The point I was making was that the Jews had as good a claim to the land as the Palestinians did.

You might call it stealing, others called it redressing a prior claim.

Originally Posted by major liability

So, because Jews had been moving there for 70 years and they were "developing" the land that gives them the right to steal it?

Well, I guess it really was the British who caused this... but still, I can't help but feel sorry for the Palestinians. They really have no other options because they lack an organized military.

well, we stole our land from the British...

Well, it's sort of like when General Andrew Jackson was ordered to solve the "Indian" and foreign pirates problem in Florida. The President and Congress told him to do it, not how. He took his army and attacked the tribes, when they went to fight, he burned all undefended villages and food. All hapless French, British, and Indians were cut down except for two British officials, he hung them. The US told Spain that if they wanted Florida, they were to occupy and defend it or lose it. They chose the latter. Thus began the "to the victor go the spoils" method of warfare.

This is the way the Jews see things and so far, I haven't been able to find anything to the contrary. Of course this is a Jewish site but that doesn't rewrite history.

http://www.masada2000.org/

There has never been a civilization or a nation referred to as "Palestine" and the very notion of a "Palestinian Arab nation" having ancient attachments to the Holy Land going back to time immemorial is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated upon the world! There is not, nor has there ever been, a distinct "Palestinian" culture or language. Further, there has never been a Palestinian state governed BY Arab Palestinians in history, nor was there ever a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964... three years BEFORE the Arabs of "Palestine" lost the West Bank [Judea and Samaria] and Gaza as a result of the 1967 Six-Day War (which the Arabs started).Even the so-called leader of the "Palestinian" people, Yasser Arafat, is EGYPTIAN! In short, the so-called Arab "Palestinians" are a manufactured people...a people with no history and no authenticity... whose sole purpose for existence is to destroy the Jewish State!

Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later in 586 B.C.E. these first ancient Jews in the Land of Israel [Judea] were overrun and Israel's First Jewish Temple (on Jerusalem's Old City Temple Mount) was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel and also a Second Temple in Jerusalem upon the Temple Mount. Thus the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty years ago right after the Holocaust and drove out the Arabs is preposterous!

Originally Posted by Dark_Mark

Facts? Those resemble opinions.

So Hamas rules over an autocracy? The fact is there are plenty of innocent Palestinians in Israeli jails. None of them are called "hostages."

Both sides of this conflict have committed acts of terrorism. Israeli laser-guided bombs have killed plenty of innocent Palestinians, just like Palestinian suicide bombers have killed plenty of innocent Israelis.

I thought Palestine was inhabited by arabs since roughly the time of Mohammed, no?

Hamas is a terrorist organization, dude.

That land belongs to Jews first before it belongs to Arabs or Muslims