Originally Posted by Cartman

until 1941 i think or 1939, every jew that could leave germany was encouraged too. until 1938 they acts against jews in germany were mostly propaganda and Legislation in actions like the "one day economic boycott" against jewish owned stores and such. nirenberg laws against the jewish actions. waving the reich flag was illigal for jews. but in 1938 the crystal night was a sign that the natzis officialy went from verbal abuse to violent.

The Nazis were violent toward the Jews after the Crystal Night, it wasn't, however, the extermination which occurred later. The most important thing with the holocaust is what we do with the knowledge about it, so it doesn't happen to again to other people. Knowledge is useless if we don't use it

There is a group that we often overlook when talking about holocaust and it is the Jehovah's Witnesses.

On April 1, 1935, Jehovah's Witnesses were banned by law. The authorities took children away from their parents and sent them to reform schools and orphanages, or to private homes to be brought up as National Socialists. In the concentration camps, Jehovah's Witnesses were required to wear a purple triangle to distinguish them from other inmates. Many of them died from disease, hunger, exhaustion, brutal treatment, and exposure to the cold. About 10,000 Witnesses were imprisoned in concentration camps during the Nazi period. An estimated 2,500 to 5,000 died.

To many people, the Holocaust and Jewish persecution started in 1939, with the declaration of war. However, what people may not be aware of is the fact that German persecution of Jews started significantly earlier than that. Anti-Jewish laws and regulations were brought into Germany along with the Nazis in 1933. At first, the laws and regulations started out small.

Many German Jews started trying to leave Germany but firm anti-Jewish immigration laws, however, only allowed so many hundreds of Jews to immigrate each year. Many just moved across the border to France, Poland or other neighbouring countries, which would soon be swallowed up by the Nazis. When the war broke out in 1939, it was prohibited Jews by law to leave Germany.

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

In all seriousness, we can learn and it is time for Israel to do the same. To use the holocaust as an excuse doesn't work anymore and quit guilt trip the rest of the world for what happened. No one denies the crimes committed by the Nazis, learn from what they did and try to avoid similar events all over the world. But I am very cynical about that

This is the true tragedy in all this. The Jews of all people should be demonstrating to the world that policies such as Ethnic Cleansing are barbaric, but No, instead they chose to emulate it and improve upon it, upon the Palestinian people.

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

What I never do is to demonize other groups, even the surviving victims from the holocaust never blamed the German population for what happened. A population is not evil, individuals are. If we are crossing the line and begin to demonize others, we are not better than the people responsible for the holocaust. Therefore, Israel has something to do and not demonize the Palestinians and they have the same responsibility to do the same.

True, perhaps in selected cases, but ultimately so simplistic as to be dangerous. If those who do wrong are not demonised, there is no real incentive for them to do the right thing, are those who do not speak up against these people, (demonise them) are as bad if not worse, as they are because in saying nothing, they give assent to the wrong doers. This turning of the head is what has allowed Israel to become the pariah state that it is, we all know that it is doing wrong, but no one will say it publicly for fear of being declared anti semitic or some such BS.

Originally Posted by Der Alte

To many people, the Holocaust and Jewish persecution started in 1939, with the declaration of war. However, what people may not be aware of is the fact that German persecution of Jews started significantly earlier than that. Anti-Jewish laws and regulations were brought into Germany along with the Nazis in 1933. At first, the laws and regulations started out small.

I am unsure whether this was the full list but it is a comprehensive list of laws enacted...
Jewish Restrictions in WWII Germany

March 17, 1933 - Jewish physicians are forbidden practice.

April 4, 1934 - Jewish pupils are not allowed to attend higher schools anymore.

April 7, 1933 - "Gesetz zur Wiederherstellung des Berufsbeamtentums" (= Law for the reconstruction of the Civil Servant system); many Jewish Civil Servants are discharged.

April 21, 1933 - Ritual butcher of animals for nutrition purposes ("Schächten") is forbidden.

April 25, 1933 - Admission of "Non-Aryans" to schools and Universities is restricted. Jews may not participate in sports contests or be members of sports clubs anymore.

July 14, 1933 - "Undesired Persons" can be deprived of German citizenship.

August 22, 1933 - Jews are forbidden to use public beaches in numerous German cities, such as Berlin-Wannsee, Fulda, Beuthen, Speyer.

October 4, 1933 - "Schriftleiter-Gesetz" (= Editors Law). Jewish press editors may not practice anymore.

March 3, 1935 - Jewish children have to attend seperate primary schools.

May 21, 1935 - "Wehrgesetz" (= Conscription Law). "Aryan Descent" is mandatory for being allowed to serve in the armed forces.

August 31, 1935 - Jewish pupils may not get prizes in honor of extraordinary performances anymore.

September 6, 1935 - Jewish newspapers may not be sold in the streets anymore.

September 15, 1935 - "Nürnberger Gesetze" (= Nuremberg Laws), including the "Reichsbürgergesetz" (= Reich Citizen Law) and the "Gesetz zum Schutz des deutschen Blutes und der deutschen Ehre" (= Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honor).

- Central content of the Reich Citizen Law: Jews can not be German citizens and can not claim equal citizen rights anymore. All Jewish Civil Servants are dismissed. The law includes a definition of who is considered a Jew by descent.

- Central content of the Law for Protection of German Blood: Jews and Non-Jews are forbidden to have non-conjugal sexual intercourse). Jews may not employ any Non-Jewish domestic servants.

September 30, 1935 - As demanded by the Nuremberg Laws, all Jewish Civil Servants are dismissed.

November 14, 1935 - 1st decree to the Reich Citizen Law: Jews are forbidden to hold public offices and to participate in any political voting.

- 1st decree to the Law for Protection of German Blood: Jews and Non-Jews are not allowed to marry anymore. Jews are restricted to a small number of professions; Jewish pupils may not use the same sporting grounds and locker rooms as Non-Jewish pupils anymore.

March 7, 1936 - Jews have no Reichstag (= Reich Diet) franchise anymore.

June 12, 1937 - Secret decree: "Schutzhaft" (= Protective Arrest) for "Rassenschänder" (= those having sexual relations forbidden by the Nuremberg Laws) after trial.

July 2, 1937 - Jewish pupils who are still in public schools may not participate in school events anymore.

November 16, 1937 - Jews get travel passports only "in special cases".

February 2, 1938 - Jewish households are cut off from electricity and gas.

April 26, 1938 - Jews have to report fortunes of more than 5000 Reichsmark.

June 14, 1938 - Decree on registration and public marking of Jewish-owned businesses. Lists of wealthy Jews are being collected at revenue offices and police stations.

June 15, 1938 - "Asozialen-Aktion" (= Action against Anti Socials): All previously convicted Jews (including those with traffic offenses and similar records) are arrested and brought to Concentration Camps.

July 6, 1938 - The list of professions Jews may not practice anymore is extended; they can not work as brokers, matrimonial agents and tourist guides anymore, to name but a few.

July 23, 1938 - Decree that Jews are required to have special identification cards with them from Jan. 1, 1938.

July 26, 1938 - Decree on cancelling the approbations of all Jewish physicians from Sept. 30, 1938. After that date, Jewish physicians are only allowed to work as "Krankenbehandler" (a newly invented term, meaning 'Person treating the ill') for Jews.

July 27, 1938 - All street names with any Jewish background are changed.

August 17, 1938 - Decree on the Realization of the Law on Change of Family Names and Given Names: From Jan. 1, 1939, all Jews are required to carry "Israel" or "Sara" as additional given name.

September 27, 1938 - Jewish lawyers may not practice anymore.

27.09.38 Jüdische Rechtsanwälte dürfen ihren Beruf nicht mehr ausüben.

October 5, 1938 - Decree on Travel Passports: All passports belonging to Jews are drawn in and under intentional difficulties newly issued with a "J" (for Jude, Jew) stamped into them.

October 28, 1938 - Between 15,000 and 17,000 Jews with Polish citizenship are expelled.

November 7, 1938 - Herschel Grynszpan, whose parents were afflicted by the expelling of Polish Jews, shoots the German Diplomat Ernst vom Rath in Paris. As a result, the nationwide pogrom of November 9 is arranged.

November 11, 1938 - Jews are not allowed to own neither to carry arms anymore.

November 12, 1938 - Jews may not attend cinemas, theaters, concerts and exhibitions anymore and are also forbidden to manage shops and workshops.
Jews may buy food in special shops only.

November 15, 1938 - Jews may not attend German schools anymore.

November 23, 1938 - All Jewish-owned businesses are dissolved.

November 28, 1938 - Jews may at certain times not stay in specified areas open to the public anymore.

December 3, 1938 - Driving licenses and vehicle registration documents owned by Jews are drawn in. Jews are forced to sell their businesses and to deliver all jewellery and securities to the authorities.

December 6, 1938 - "Judenbann" (= Ban of Jews) in Berlin: Jews are prohibited to enter specified streets, squares etc.

December 8, 1938 - Jewish professors who have been practicing as private persons at the universities after their dismissals are forbidden any kind of work at higher schools.

December 13, 1938 - Jews are forced to sell houses, shops and factories for extremely low prices to Non-Jews.

December 31, 1938 - Jews may not possess automobiles anymore.

January 1, 1939 - All male Jews are forced to carry the additional given name "Israel", all female Jews the name "Sara".

February 21, 1939 - Jews have to deliver all items of value to the authorities without any compensation.

To be continued...

April 30, 1939 - Legal preparations for laying together Jewish families in "Judenhäuser" (= Jews Houses). Eviction Protection is abolished: Landlords may cancel contracts of Jewish tenats anytime.

September 1, 1939 - Curfew for Jews, in summer after 9 pm, in winter after 8 pm.

Septmber 29, 1939 - Jews are not allowed to own radios anymore; all wireless receivers must be delivered to the police.

October 17, 1939 - Jews may not participate in civil air raid manoeuvers anymore.

October 28, 1939 - Jews must fix a Star of David on their front door.

October 23, 1939 - Jews in occupied Poland have to wear the "Jew Star" visibly on their clothes.

February 6, 1940 - Jews do not get the Reichskleiderkarte (= purchase permit for rationed clothes) and no purchase permits for any woven fabrics anymore.

July 4, 1940 - Jews in Berlin may only shop between 4 and 5 pm.

July 29, 1940 - Jews are not allowed to have telephones anymore.

June 12, 1941 - Jews may, when filling documents and the likes, declare themselves only as "without belief" when asked for the religion.

July 31, 1941 - Jews may not lend books from public libraries anymore.

September 1, 1941 - All Jews older than six years of age must permanently wear the yellow star visibly on their clothes. They are not allowed to leave their place of residence without permission of the police anymore.

September 18, 1941 - Jews may not use public transport anymore.

December 18, 1941 - The ID cards identifying Jews wounded as soldiers in World War I as severely disabled are drawn in.

December 26, 1941 - Jews may not use public telephones anymore.

January 4, 1942 - Jews must deliver all fur coats.

January 10, 1942 - Jews must deliver all their wollen clothes.

February 15, 1942 - Jews may not own pets anymore.

February 17, 1942 - Jews may not get newspapers by mail anymore.

17.02.42 Juden dürfen keine Zeitungen durch die Post beziehen.

March 26, 1942 - Apartments of Jews must be marked by a Star of David next to the name plaque at the entrance door.

April 1942 - Jews may not visit Non-Jews in their apartments and houses anymore.

May 15, 1942 - Jews are forbidden to own bicycles.

May 29, 1942 - Jews may get their hair cut by Jewish hairdressers
only.

June 9, 1942 - Jews must deliver all clothes not belonging to their basic needs.

June 11, 1942 - Jews do not get purchase permits for tobacco and cigarettes anymore.

June 19, 1942 - Jews must deliver all electrical and optical equipment and similar items, such as heating ovens, boiling pots, vacuum cleaners, water heaters, hair driers, irons, record players and records, typewriters, binoculars, cameras, films etc.
Jews may not enter most shops anymore.

June 20, 1942 - All Jewish schools are closed.

July 17, 1942 - Blind and deaf Jews may not wear signs identifying them in street traffic anymore.

September 18, 1942 - Jews do not get meat, eggs, white bread, sweets, fruit, canned fruit and milk anymore.

September 23, 1942 - In tests, the first Jews are mudered in the Auschwitz gas chambers.

No further restrictions were made after 1942, because there was not really anything left to restrict. Also, it was not regarded necessary by the German authorities: On January 20, 1942, a decision was made to step by step deport all German Jews to the Death Camps in the East.

Sources:

ShoaNet: Glossar des Holocaust, by Bettina Brenner, 2002

Shoa.de: Das Dritte Reich - Deutschland unter dem Nationalsozialismus, by Arbeitskreis Shoa, 2002

Einschränkungen im Leben der Juden in Deutschland, by Friesenschule Leer 2001/2002

Jugendgeschichtswerkstatt: Antisemitische Gesetze

Originally Posted by senojekips

This is the true tragedy in all this. The Jews of all people should be demonstrating to the world that policies such as Ethnic Cleansing are barbaric, but No, instead they chose to emulate it and improve upon it, upon the Palestinian people.

True, perhaps in selected cases, but ultimately so simplistic as to be dangerous. If those who do wrong are not demonised, there is no real incentive for them to do the right thing, are those who do not speak up against these people, (demonise them) are as bad if not worse, as they are because in saying nothing, they give assent to the wrong doers. This turning of the head is what has allowed Israel to become the pariah state that it is, we all know that it is doing wrong, but no one will say it publicly for fear of being declared anti semitic or some such BS.

I agree with the Israeli Government must stop to guilt trip and accuse people to be anti Semitic if you are criticizing Israel. There are Israelis who oppose their own governments policy toward the Palestinians, so we can be critical toward Israel, but never accuse them all.

Sorry Guys but irrespective of Iranian Nuclear Issue, one thing i'm unable to comprehend that if Iran is not allowed to keep Nukes or even an ability to make em, then Why a Country Named Israel with Aggressive History, Expansionist designs and record full of genocide in palestine is allowed to keep such a large stock of Nukes, Why this IAEA never bothers to say a word about them what to talk of inspecting em? Please give me a brief logic so i could find my way into the situation, so far does'nt make any sense?

Originally Posted by 2nd Lieutenant

Sorry Guys but irrespective of Iranian Nuclear Issue, one thing i'm unable to comprehend that if Iran is not allowed to keep Nukes or even an ability to make em, then Why a Country Named Israel with Aggressive History, Expansionist designs and record full of genocide in palestine is allowed to keep such a large stock of Nukes, Why this IAEA never bothers to say a word about them what to talk of inspecting em? Please give me a brief logic so i could find my way into the situation, so far does'nt make any sense?

I'll explain.

Pakistan, India and North Korea should not have nuclear weapons. It is not proven that Israel has nuclear weapons (most think they have, me included). They never have detonated a nuclear device, the others did.

They did not sign the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons either so they cannot violate it. (North Korea withdrew), Iran did and violates the treaty (that's why there are international sanctions).

They did not sign the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty (Israel did, Iran didn't). Israel has not violated it, the others cannot.

The IAEA cannot inspect sites in countries that didn't sign the NPT treaty. So they cannot inspect Israel, Pakistan, India and North Korea but they can inspect Iran.

About Israel's agressive history: that country was attacked several times by several countries. In my point of view the attacker is the agressor not the defender. No one ever attacked Iran. Israel gets attacked almost every day (rockets from Gaza) and has to deal with terrorist attacks, that's why they are building the fence and having checkpoints in parts of the West Bank that are under the security of Israel (see Oslo accords).

Originally Posted by Lunatik

Greek Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyannis said here on Saturday her country did not and will not launch any maneuver against its friendly country, Iran.

She made the remarks in a meeting with her Iranian counterpart Manouchehr Mottaki held on the sidelines of the 63rd annual session of the UN General Assembly.

She further briefed Mottaki on efforts made by the Europe with regards to the latest developments in the Caucasus.

Mottaki voiced Iran's readiness to further expand bilateral relations in all areas, particularly in the energy and trade fields.

The Iranian foreign minister then criticized recent joint Greece-Israel military exercises.

He briefed Bakoyannis on Iran's initiative on settlement of stability and tranquility in the Caucasus region.

Referring to the Islamic Republic of Iran as a country with rich culture and civilization, the Greek foreign minister stressed that Athens is willing to further promote all-out ties with Tehran.

She added that two Greek political and economic delegations will soon visit Iran to review issues of mutual interest and to help further expand bilateral cooperation.

http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/men...2312110314.htm

pathetic, major disappointment in Greece AGAIN.

Originally Posted by USAgirl

pathetic, major disappointment in Greece AGAIN.

You do realize this happened four years ago right?