Redoing the topic ... there were too many people missing for the first thread to count. Added several options that should have been in the first thread. In the end, I decided not to throw Ike out for the simple reason that his command had tremendous influence on the Battlefield, depending upon your point of view.

Can I get a Mod to lock the first thread please?

Good list. Small quibble: Zhukov and Konev were not titled "Field Marshall" but rather "Marshall of the Soviet Union". A bit of a mouthful though and you probably retitled them for brevity.

Originally Posted by Charge_7

Good list. Small quibble: Zhukov and Konev were not titled "Field Marshall" but rather "Marshall of the Soviet Union". A bit of a mouthful though and you probably retitled them for brevity.

Precisely why I left it out. The same thing is true of several others. Monty, Ike, MacArthur and LeClerc were all topmost for their respective nations and have a long annoying title attached to it. Also, Konev and Zukov did not hold that title simultaneously because it denoted "foremost of all Field Marshalls". I like my way. Its simpler.

Originally Posted by godofthunder9010

Precisely why I left it out. The same thing is true of several others. Monty, Ike, MacArthur and LeClerc were all topmost for their respective nations and have a long annoying title attached to it. Also, Konev and Zukov did not hold that title simultaneously because it denoted "foremost of all Field Marshalls". I like my way. Its simpler.

Vatutin was a Marshall too, while we're on the subject.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Vatutin was a Marshall too, while we're on the subject.

I noted that in the other thread, but then I check one of the most reliable sources I know and found this:
http://www.generals.dk/nation/Soviet_Union/Vat.html
Even reliable sources are wrong sometimes, so just link the info and my data source shall be flogged, beaten and whipped.

I feel a lot better with more Soviet names up there. They deserve more credit that they ever get.

Originally Posted by godofthunder9010

I noted that in the other thread, but then I check one of the most reliable sources I know and found this:
http://www.generals.dk/nation/Soviet_Union/Vat.html
Even reliable sources are wrong sometimes, so just link the info and my data source shall be flogged, beaten and whipped.

I feel a lot better with more Soviet names up there. They deserve more credit that they ever get.

You know I can give you several links that state he was a Marshall and several more that state he was a General. I suspect that many links/sources refer to him as Lt General in 1942 which he definately was at that point in time. Certainly, as a commander in charge of a Front he probably should have been the rank of Marshall if he wasn't. Konev & Zhukov were both Marshalls and commanded similar size forces. But to be honest it doesn't really matter at the end of the day.

"I feel a lot better with more Soviet names up there. They deserve more credit that they ever get."

Unfortunately, that was the Soviets own doing. Granted the Cold War didn't make us rush to honor them, however, we had little idea of the complete picture of Russian operations prior to the 1970s when the Soviets made more information public and even then didn't get it all until the fall of the Soviet Union in the 1990s.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

You know I can give you several links that state he was a Marshall and several more that state he was a General. I suspect that many links/sources refer to him as Lt General in 1942 which he definately was at that point in time. Certainly, as a commander in charge of a Front he probably should have been the rank of Marshall if he wasn't. Konev & Zhukov were both Marshalls and commanded similar size forces. But to be honest it doesn't really matter at the end of the day.

I wonder if it was one of those promotions that got neglected for unknown reasons and was perhaps granted post-humously? If anyone can shed some more light on the matter, it would be appreciated. I have nothing whatsoever against learning something new.

Guderian deserved the rank of Field Marshall many times over, but somehow never got it. A man of such distiction merits the rank being pushed on him even if he objects. Something similar happend to Vatutin perhaps?

Guderian didn't make field marshall because he was the only German general who had the jeuvos to tell Hitler he was wrong to his face. It was just that simple. Certainly he deserved the rank - and many times over the likes of some who did get the rank like Keitel for example.

Originally Posted by Charge_7

Guderian didn't make field marshall because he was the only German general who had the jeuvos to tell Hitler he was wrong to his face. It was just that simple. Certainly he deserved the rank - and many times over the likes of some who did get the rank like Keitel for example.

He wasn't the only German general to argue with Hitler but he was certainly the most obstinate. Hitler was incensed and both disappointed in Guderian in Dec 1941 when the latter chose to retreat his 2nd Panzer Army in the face of Hitler's 'stand or die' orders. That cost him his Army command and almost certainly cost him a promotion to Generalfeldmarschall. When he came back in 1943 he actually had more power than most Generalfeldmarschalls ever had as Inspector General of Panzertruppen. Plus he became Chief of Staff in 1944 although by this time much of the power was with Hitler, as it had been since 1942. So in a sense he did achieve the ranks he deserved although personally I would have loved to see what he and Manstein could have achieved had they been allowed to call the shots.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I'm really not sure who to vote for - I need more time to think.