Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

Actually he was captured in North Vietnam.

Regardless of this or that I think this man is more qualified than the other two candidates currently.

This is why I think so.
Right now, the country is at a time of war. There is a need for a President who understands what war is. He's fought in one and he's been against war or deployment many times in his career. He's no chickenhawk. He's going to do what's necessary without haphazardly pulling out of Iraq or Afghanistan that will probably lead to more larger problems in the near future as well as the distant future.

It also seems like he's a very internationally minded person and I think there really needs to be more of this. The other two candidates may be about the same in this arena, though I'm not so sure about Hillary Clinton.

He's experienced and he's not afraid to go against fellow party members or his own party if he believes they're not doing the right thing. So he's got guts and the skill to survive in politics even when he stands more or less alone against his own party. Many politicians have stood against their own party and ended up in lame duck alley ahead of schedule (read: Noh Moo-hyeon). Obama doesn't have the experience to show us that he can pull off the same thing and Hillary... her rise was mainly by riding along side her husband. The majority of leaders who rose this way ended up being rather ineffective leaders (Benezir Bhutto, a stack load of Filipina Presidents and South Korean presidential candidate Park Gun-hye). They showed a lot of promise but when they took their seat, their weaknesses showed in flying colors.

Also, because the current President has been pretty darn conservative, I think the solution will be to elect a centrist, NOT a leftist President. McCain is about as centrist as you can get along with Joe Liberman.

He's not perfect but out of the candidates we got, I think he's the most fit to lead.

And I agree with the UHC thing being way better.
Basically from what I've seen the only countries that have worse healthcare than the US are 3rd world countries that don't even have enough money to properly pave their roads.

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I disagree somewhat.

Hillary keeps saying she has more experiance than Obama, but I am not so sure thats actually true. She was the First Lady, the First Lady is not an elected official position. She wasn't involved in the decision making, her HUSBAND was. Samething when Clinton was Governor of Arkansas, HE was the one in office not her, she was always riding on his coatails. And thats fine, lots of First Ladies have done the same, although Hillary is the first to attempt to claim her Husbands achievements as her own.

The only experiance she has to claim is as New York Senator, a job she had held only 2 years more than Obama. Obama on the other hand spent 10 years as a Illinois state senator. So overall I'd say HE has the most experiance. Hillary on has 2 years more than Obama as a US Senator.

Secondly I agree with what you said about needing a Centrist, but the problem is McCain isn't one, he is now the MOST conservative senator in Congress. He has been Conservative on all most every issue except immigration. The reason people call him liberal-moderate is because he follows his own convictions rather than that of the GOP herd. And I respect that, the last thing we need is another Bush whose is programmed by his puppet masters.

My problem with McCain is not that he is a bad, stupid, or dishonest person but that he is wrong. Hillary called his Economic policies that of "Herbert Hoover", she is right. McCain Favors the same hands-off approach to our current economic crisis that Hoover did -which of course led to the Great Depression.

His policies on the Economy, the War, and Foreign Policy are exactly identical to the current disastrous administration. I am sure he'd be better than Bush, but 'better' isn't what we need. We need a SLAM THE BREAKS-FULL REVERSE change of direction, not the minor course correction he proposes.

Hillary is far more to the center than McCain is, although I am voting for Obama because like many Democrats -I don't the Clinton on a personal level.

Originally Posted by major liability

Usually I'm fairly libertarian, but I like the idea of a UHC system. I'd be willing to pay your medical bills, if you agree to pay mine.

Deal.

.

Currently there just seem to be too many darned problems and there isn't one candidate that seems to have the answers to them.
Hillary Clinton could be the centrist that is in need but you're right here... she's mostly been doing the watching, not the leading or decision making.
As for voting against someone because you don't like them personally... I think when it comes to the job you really should put that aside. Can this person do it or not?
And about McCain's economics strategy, right now is the worst time to let it be.

So who's it going to be?

For what it's worth - here is my two-penny's -worth at this stage in the process.

Redneck and MM have left us with very good persuasive posts. Taking both into consideration and looking at the big picture it seems to me that the argument that demonstrates the most anti-Bush is not sufficient. I am still not convinced that any other incumbent would have had dissimilar conclusions to draw regarding the Iraq situation, for an important example. Retrospect is a wonderful thing.

On the same basis, the simplistic 'get me and get out of this war' as a vote winner just has to be suspect. Get out and do what? How much policy is that? An opportunist carrot policy?

The situation in Iraq needs the most careful, coolly calculated policy decisions considered, untainted and unpressured by the election process.
It should not become subject to pre-election promises, and surely it should not be used as a reason to pole-vault someone into the Presidency.

And knee-jerking America out of the Iraq equation , in this way, could become a case of throwing the baby out with the bath-water.

It could well be a case at the present time to go with what you know about who you know, that's what experience and waiting in line in responsible positions is all about. It's a big part of the democratic system and why should it fail now?

Perhaps this is a time for Obama to wait while he shows you a lot more. It seems that one big advantage he has now is that you know so little about him politically and personally compared with the other two candidates.

Steady as she goes, guys. Good luck.

Whatever the case, don't pick out of impulse.

Personally, I don't know what qualifies as Presidential material anymore.


"If the present Congress errs in too much talking, how can it
be otherwise in a body to which the people send 150 lawyers,
whose trade it is to question everything, yield nothing, & talk
by the hour? That 150 lawyers should do business together ought
not to be expected."

-- Thomas Jefferson (Autobiography, 1821)

Reference: Jefferson: Writings, Peterson ed., Library of America
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