Goodbye FAMAS...French looking for new service rifle

mmarsh

mmarsh

Active member
FYI...Just for all you shooters,

The French military has announced that they plan to replace both versions of the FAMAS (F1 and G1) and have opened a open competition to submit proposals for a new French service rifle for all its branches.

Sadly, MAS no longer makes firearms (a company that has produced arms for the French military since 1777) so the replacement of the FAMAS will almost certainly be an import.

So far here are the competitors so far

HK416 (Germany)
FN SCAR-L (Belgium)
FN2000 (Belgium)
SiG 550 (Austria)
Berreta ARX (Italy)
CZ 801 BREN-A2 (Czech Republic)
HS VHS (Croatia)
STYR-AUG-A3 (Australian Varient)
ACR ((Remington USA)
Colt Canada (Colts Canada Divison)
Tevor (Israel)

Although not on the list is the G36, which is already in use amongst Special Forces and Gendarmerie, but I think its cost has put it out of competition.

Also I highly doubt the French would buy the Tevor (as French-Israel relations are at a all time low...)

Your favorites of that list. My Money is on the HK416, proven battle rifle used by American Special Forces.

Discuss
 
mmarsh said:
FYI...Just for all you shooters,

The French military has announced that they plan to replace both versions of the FAMAS (F1 and G1) and have opened a open competition to submit proposals for a new French service rifle for all its branches.

Sadly, MAS no longer makes firearms (a company that has produced arms for the French military since 1777) so the replacement of the FAMAS will almost certainly be an import.

So far here are the competitors so far

HK416 (Germany)
FN SCAR-L (Belgium)
FN2000 (Belgium)
SiG 550 (Austria)
Berreta ARX (Italy)
CZ 801 BREN-A2 (Czech Republic)
HS VHS (Croatia)
STYR-AUG-A3 (Australian Varient)
ACR ((Remington USA)
Colt Canada (Colts Canada Divison)
Tevor (Israel)

Although not on the list is the G36, which is already in use amongst Special Forces and Gendarmerie, but I think its cost has put it out of competition.

Also I highly doubt the French would buy the Tevor (as French-Israel relations are at a all time low...)

Your favorites of that list. My Money is on the HK416, proven battle rifle used by American Special Forces.

Discuss
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The FN SCAR has a pretty good reputation as well
 
It will certainly NOT be the M-4 or any flavor of an American weapon, even if made in Canada! They don't want anything of American origin. Lol!
It won't be the G-36 either. The German polymer wonder is getting some bad press lately. I hope it won't be the Steyr Aug, a silly weapon. I'm thinking, if it can't be a home - grown French firearm, and they don't seem to have one, it will be a Belgian product.
 
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Remington 1858 said:
It will certainly NOT be the M-4 or any flavor of an American weapon, even if made in Canada! They don't want anything of American origin. Lol!
It won't be the G-36 either. The German polymer wonder is getting some bad press lately. I hope it won't be the Steyr Aug, a silly weapon. I'm thinking, if it can't be a home - grown French firearm, and they don't seem to have one, it will be a Belgian product.
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Just not true, the ACR is a Remington product and is in the running The M4 was previously used by French Special Forces in small batches but was replaced by the HK416.

The reason the M4 isnt in the running is because its a last-gen rifle, and the French have expressly asked for a future gen one.

Is it likely to be a EU weapon?...Yes just because the EU likes to stick together but its not because they oppose have something American. France buys other US weapons, although they prefer to make their own when possible.

I actually think it will be from Germany/Austria as France uses alot more HKs, Sig-Sauers and Glocks then FN products.
 
Maybe the French buy a Swiss weapon, they have good relations with them.

Btw. The SIG 550 is a Swiss toy, not an Austrian. Picky, I knew.
 
Remington 1858 said:
Mmarsh: You say that France purchases other U.S. weapons. What would those be?
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Within the past 1-2 decades or so they have purchased the following U.S weapon systems.

M4 Carbines (used by special forces, now since replaced with the HK416)
CAR-15 (used by special forces now since replaced with the HK416)
Ruger Mini-14 used by the French Military Police.
Browning BPS SGF 12" Shotgun used by French Military Police.
M2 Browning
E-2 Hawkeye
C-130 (they are possibly going to buy 4 more, (or the Transvall C-160) in 2016)
E-3 Sentry
Boeing KC-135 Tankers
MQ-9 Reaper UAV (3 delivered, 13 more on order)
GBU-12
GBU-24
AGM-114 Hellfire
FMG-168 Javelin ATM
 
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WTF is wrong with the Steyr??

:stupid:
Remington 1858 said:
It will certainly NOT be the M-4 or any flavor of an American weapon, even if made in Canada! They don't want anything of American origin. Lol!
It won't be the G-36 either. The German polymer wonder is getting some bad press lately. I hope it won't be the Steyr Aug, a silly weapon. I'm thinking, if it can't be a home - grown French firearm, and they don't seem to have one, it will be a Belgian product.
Click to expand...


HEY HEY!!! Why is the Styer a silly weapon???? I use the Aus Styer and it works just fine for me with no issues in the field at all....... Silly yank!
 
The silly Yank will be happy to tell you about the deficiencies of the Steyr AUG, a firearm I am intimately familiar with as an instructor, armorer and someone who has shot truckloads of ammunition through same.
First, before I criticize the firearm; it's good points. It is extremely accurate. The optical sight was ground breaking when it was introduced, although there is better stuff today. Some of the materials used in the construction are exceptional. The barrel is especially durable and will not lose accuracy even after thousands of rounds.
Now the bad stuff. The plastic magazines have very poor cartridge retention. Drop a loaded Steyr magazine on the ground and you will get a "burst of six". Cartridges will come flying out. This is very critical when loading the rifle. If the shooter strikes the bottom of the magazine to seat it, the top round will be dislodged and when the bolt goes forward there will be a double feed. A double feed is very difficult to clear on a Steyr because the ejection port is so small. A Steyr shooter should always have a folding knife or Leatherman to clear the problem. In fact, any stoppage on a Steyr is very difficult to clear.
The rifle is supposed to be ambidextrous and the ejection port cover can be moved from one side to the other, However, the ejection port cover has poor retention and doesn't always stay in place. It is a "handed" weapon, meaning that if you are left-handed, you have to have a left-handed rifle. Otherwise you are going to get a facefull of hot brass. Combat rifles have to capable of being fired from both side of cover. You can't do that with a Steyr.
There are issues with the gas port selector. Many users get burns from the hot gas being vented.
Finally, but by no means least. The Steyr AUG has the world's worst trigger pull. It is so bad that practically requires two fingers for some people to pull it through.
All in all, despite it's good points it is a beastly weapon and I notice that the Australian SAS are seen in all recent photos to be using M-4s, a much more user friendly rifle.
 
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Like Warwick, I carried the F88 Austeyr for some years.
I won't dispute such things as the trigger pull on the AUG, it is definitely an issue but a few other points I would challenge because some of them seem like "local build" problems rather than being universal to the design.

The magazines: Sounds more like a problem with the specific magazines you had access to, I've seen Australian made AUG magazines dropped and they did not lose any rounds. Also, not all of us "strike" the bottom of the magazine to seat it, frankly I think that it's a poor practice as it is may be relevant to some firearms but it is by no means suitable for all. I've never had any need for slapping the bottom of any AUG mag I used to seat it properly but I've also never needed to strike the bottom of any mag I used on the M16A1 to get it to seat properly. I sincerely believe this has more to do with training than it does with any actual need to shove the mag further into the magazine well to compensate for any seeming deficiency in the rifles ability to seat & retain a magazine.

The gas port selector: Under normal use, you shouldn't be mucking about with it and if you do have to use it, it's designed to be manipulated with the head of a 5.56mm round - there's no need for putting bare flesh on it unless you're doing strip/clean/assembly.

Double-feed: Depending on the model of AUG you're using and the accepted drill for doing so, clearing a double-feed was pretty damned easy - if it couldn't be cleared through the ejection port, you removed the barrel and took care of the problem.
 
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But wait, there's more as they say in the television adverts. The biggest issue with the A.U.G. is the proprietary Steyr magazine The U.S. is obligated to defend Australia under the ANZUS treaty. There is a Standardization Agreement ( STANAG) between the U.S. and almost all of it's potential allies ( Britain, Canada, NATO).
The Steyr can't accept STANAG magazines. All of the ammunition made for use with STANAG magazines are packed in stripper clips with magazine adapters that permit charging magazines with clips, rather than individual rounds.
None of that will work with an AUG magazine. If Australian forces are operating with U.S. forces which is very likely in a real war, the only thing that the U.S. supply systems can provide to AUG users are loose cartridges. That's why the Australian SAS in Afghanistan is seen using M-4s. Their AUG are pretty much useless when depending on the U.S. supply system.
When the EF-88 was introduced the problem still wasn't fixed! That's carrying national independence a bit far!
Of all the countries around OZ, the Malaysians and Kiwis used the AUG and both have decided to dump it.
 
Geez, how ever did we survive when we & the Brits used the L1A1 and you used the M14, the Belgians used the FAL and the Germans used the G3.
I can't believe we actually made it through WW2, Korea, Vietnam etc. etc. without standardization...

The AUG is only useless when relying on the US supply system if you suddenly forgot how to load a magazine.
 
I've been in the ADF a long time. I am qual'd on a lot of weapon systems. I like the M4 family its a good weapon. I miss the FN FAL which was the first long arm I carried in service. But it had its limitations as well.
And I REALLY like the current Australian issue service rifle. I have no reservations about its performance and can hand on heart say I have never experienced any of the issues that Remington has described. Even in the field on active service. Including logistics!!!!!
Remington, I will politely listen to your views, just not agree with all of them.
Question though, how do you rate the FAMAS family?
 
I haven't handled a FAMAS in a long time and the rifle has been modified a number of times since, including the introduction of STANAG magazines, so I really can't evaluate the latest versions.
Like any bullpup rifle it has a very long trigger linkage that makes for a horrible trigger.
 
For anyone who has been raised with firearms of conventional configuration, a bullpup is awkward. By conventional I mean; starting at the muzzle and working backward, barrel, receiver with magazine underneath, the trigger group, the stock.
Americans have usually handled firearms of this layout and find the bullpup arrangement awkward.
However, for nations where citizens have no exposure to guns prior to military service, it may not be an issue.
The justification for the bullpup design is that it is more compact and when soldiers are jammed into armored personnel carriers or helicopters, it is thought to be useful. It might be if we could figure out how to make the soldiers and all their gear smaller at the same time. The M-4 addresses the problem with a collapsible stock.
My objection to a bullpup is that it places the ejection port right up next to a soldiers face. Even if the rifle has off-side ejection, it means that the weapon can only be used from one shoulder.It's critical that a soldier be able to use a rifle from both sides of available cover with exposing more of his/her head than necessary.
 
I think at least with the FAMAS the ejection port is easily reconfigured so as to change it for a left hand or right hand shooter. Bit more effort and tooling required for the Aug.
As for me changing from long arm to Bull pup, I hated it and it took me quite some time to get used to it and accept it.
Don't mind it at all now but I get to fire a few different weapons now to keep me happy.
 
Follow-up on this old thread. France has announced that the replacement rifle for the FAMAS will be the HK416F, a gas-piston gun. This rifle is already officially in use by Norway, and unofficially by other militaries including U.S. Army Special Forces and the U.S. Marines.
 
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