Global Warming - don't wait up!

There are masses of reputable articles from scientific sources which have refuted the so called 'medievel warm period' which was largely restricted to Northern Europe. No doubt the Deniers have posted vasts amount of junk on the web which says otherwise. I am rather tired of posting this stuff.

Myth

It was warmer during the Medieval period, with vineyards in England

Pick your 'hockey stick' they are all independent!

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If you want more information, the American National Academy of Sciences has a good introduction on global warming, although like the IPCC it is heavily toned down.

http://dels.nas.edu/dels/rpt_briefs/climate_change_2008_final.pdf
 
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this is all well and good lol but so far all credible studies that i am aware of have not conclusively linked the rise in temperature with emissions ie they have not established cause and effect...

so maybe the decline in Galapagos turtles has caused the climate to change...
and i am also a little confused by how we triggered rising temperatures with our emissions five thousand years before we made them...

if it is happening we cant stop it...
we didnt start it...
 
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You need a genuine credible reason. If temperatures have been steady for a long time then they just erupt just as mankind's population and emissions increase, you cannot credibly make up silly causes to explain this. If you let someone in your house you don't know, and your money disappears it doesn't prove he stole it but it is mightily suspicious.

What we know about greenhouse gases is like obtaining additional information that he is also a convicted thief.

Modelling it is like finding the money on him.

He still might not have stole it but how certain to you have to be? We can never be completely certain but at some stage you need to insure against the future, this point was past decades ago!

Its not about physics and models just good common sense.
 
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I saw a thing on the discovery channel last night about green house gases, you you know that acid rain is natures way of removing CO2 from the atmosphere? they said it erodes the rocks away and locks the CO2 in the sea bed somehow. I didn't pay close attention to that until I heard CO2.
 
Nobody has addressed one of the main points in the original article. If Global warming is man made, and so well researched, why did scientists have to "finesse" their figures to demonstrate the fact? It reminds me of the "sexing up" of the WMD reports. Anything to achieve an end.

The fact is, that they too, are are all just whistling in the dark, trying to scare more research money out of the governments to finance their gravy train.
 
Nobody has addressed one of the main points in the original article. If Global warming is man made, and so well researched, why did scientists have to "finesse" their figures to demonstrate the fact? It reminds me of the "sexing up" of the WMD reports. Anything to achieve an end.

The fact is, that they too, are are all just whistling in the dark, trying to scare more research money out of the governments to finance their gravy train.

But did they "finesse" anything?
A major part of the problem faced in this argument is credibility, as we have already seen Wolfen wont believe anything Al Gore has to say and I am on about the same level when it comes to the comments of Limbaugh and Beck.

The problem that "science" always faces in this argument is its inability to talk in absolutes even when many people given the same data would make absolute statements and it is for the most part this appearance of uncertainty that allows opposition to cling to its views.

In the end I actually don't care what is causing global warming/climate change etc. because if we can improve our environment efficiently then we all win as I don't imagine anyone is happy sucking in some of the industrial toxins we have been pumping blindly into the environment for the last 200 years.
 
Yep,... I 'd say they did, as they are not kicking up a stinko, neither about being accused, nor their emails being compromised.

It has been claimed that the emails exchanged by members of the university's Climate Research Unit showed statistics had been finessed using 'tricks' and material that didn't fit the computer model of Climate Change presented to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was allegedly suppressed.

With the interception of another's emails being in contravention of the Communications Act, I think that we would have heard about it by now if there were not some truth in it.
 
Yep,... I 'd say they did, as they are not kicking up a stinko, neither about being accused, nor their emails being compromised.



With the interception of another's emails being in contravention of the Communications Act, I think that we would have heard about it by now if there were not some truth in it.

No offense but the lack of any stink other than from a couple of fringe right wing lunatics pretty much says that there is nothing to write home about.

I have a great deal of faith in the "muck raking" ability of the media and if they thought there were profits to be made in this it would be plastered all over the place and yet other than a couple of comments about the email accounts being hacked they have not bothered.
 
look on the bright side

more days of sun means chicks are in their skimpy cloths more time of the year.
I recon its only a long term period of the earths weather and theirs nothing we can do except to make sure we have plenty of ice for the beer
 
No offense but the lack of any stink other than from a couple of fringe right wing lunatics pretty much says that there is nothing to write home about.

I have a great deal of faith in the "muck raking" ability of the media and if they thought there were profits to be made in this it would be plastered all over the place and yet other than a couple of comments about the email accounts being hacked they have not bothered.
When someone gets dragged through the courts for interfering with communications, or slander/libel, I'll start thinking that maybe you might have a point. Until then I'll maintain a healthy suspicion of the motives of our "expert' community.
Scout.com: Another global warming scandal brewing, this time Down

3 posts - 3 authors - Last post: 26 NovAnother global warming scandal brewing, this time Down Under ... has discovered that New Zealand climate gurus "sexed up" their figures. ...
The Alarmist 'Science' Behind Global Warming

Lord Nicholas Stern, he says, “sexed up” his report by claim- ing that global warming would cause more damage than the two world wars and the ...
www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2008/2008_30.../42-47_3529.pdf
http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2008/2008_30.../42-47_3529.pdf
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/..._warming_conspiracy_how_it_massaged_its_data/

From: Phil Jones
To: ray bradley ,mann@XXXX, mhughes@XXXX
Subject: Diagram for WMO Statement
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 13:31:15 +0000
Cc: k.briffa@XXX.osborn@XXXX
Dear Ray, Mike and Malcolm,
Once Tim’s got a diagram here we’ll send that either later today or first thing tomorrow.
I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline. Mike’s series got the annual land and marine values while the other two got April-Sept for NH land N of 20N. The latter two are real for 1999, while the estimate for 1999 for NH combined is +0.44C wrt 61-90. The Global estimate for 1999 with data through Oct is +0.35C cf. 0.57 for 1998.
Thanks for the comments, Ray.
Cheers
Phil

Prof. Phil Jones
There's plenty more,.....
 
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You do realise one of the definitions for the term trick is:
- A convention or specialized skill peculiar to a particular field of activity for example to learn the tricks of the trade.

Another would be:

- A term whose use or meaning are specific to a particular field of endeavor.

Essentially they hacked about 10 years worth of emails and all they have to show for it is 2-3 deliberately misinterpreted emails I really am not that impressed with this "scandal".
I would be prepared to bet that if I got hold of 10 years worth of your emails and chose to look for specific phrases I could produce enough to make you look like Osama bin Laden's evil sister.

Further to this even if the worst case scenario was borne out you are looking at a facility that employs about 20 scientists in a field that number thousands or are they all in on the conspiracy, I will once again go with Ockam's Razor on this one.

Basically what I see is an argument that has finally run out of ammunition so now it is trying to attack individuals instead.
 
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I guess it depends how gullible you are. I'm just not that gullible. There's no consensus even among their own kind, they're all too busy trying to squeeze the cash cow before the public wakes up.
 
I would argue that you must be gullible if you are prepared to believe uneducated vested interests over peer reviewed science.

Once again it comes down what you want to believe.
 
Nobody has addressed one of the main points in the original article. If Global warming is man made, and so well researched, why did scientists have to "finesse" their figures to demonstrate the fact? It reminds me of the "sexing up" of the WMD reports. Anything to achieve an end.

The fact is, that they too, are are all just whistling in the dark, trying to scare more research money out of the governments to finance their gravy train.

One of the best communicators of climate change issues including exposing the exposers of this this fabled scandal is Peter Sinclair. It's worth watching this and the previous video I posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P70SlEqX7oY&feature=player_embedded
 
Peer reviewed science, eh? I'd say criminal deception with intent to defraud would be closer to the truth.

I found your attempt to introduce the word "trick" in one of it's more obscure meanings is typical of this whole issue, nothing is what we are being led to believe,... smoke and mirrors abound,... and for what possible reason other than to cover up a scam.

Al very reminiscent of the mad panic about the hole in the ozone layer about 5 - 10 years ago. With countries like China and other previously second world countries now releasing more chloroflurocarbons into our atmosphere than ever before, The hole has dropped right off the panic list as it is now considered to be on the mend, something we were panicked into believing could not begin to happen until at least 2050 if all useage was stopped immediately (1990s)

Cry,... Wolf!!!
 
If your interested in real scandals and conspiracies on climate try reading these
In Climate Cover-Up, in Ross Gelbspan’s books The Heat is On and Boiling Point; in my book Heat and on the websites DeSmogBlog.com and exxonsecrets.org, you can find dozens of such examples. Together they expose a systematic, well-funded campaign to con the public.

But people behind these campaigns know that their claims are untrue. One of the biggest was run by the Global Climate Coalition, which represented ExxonMobil, Shell, BP, the American Petroleum Institute and several big motor manufacturers. In 1995 the coalition’s own scientists reported that “the scientific basis for the Greenhouse Effect and the potential impact of human emissions of greenhouse gases such as CO2 on climate is well established and cannot be denied.”(7) The coalition hid this finding from the public, and spent millions of dollars seeking to persuade people that the opposite was true.

These people haven’t fooled themselves, but they might have fooled you. Who, among those of you who claim that climate scientists are liars and environmentalists are stooges, has thought it through for himself?
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/200...andal/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email
 
I've got my fill of scandals, Thanks, I don't need to go looking for more.

I don't believe the energy companies either they are as bad as their opponents. I do work these things out for myself, and so far I must say that I'm rarely disappointed with my outcomes. The climate change panic attempt, stinks like week old road kill, the perpetrators are not even convincing deceivers.

I'll make all of my own mistakes thanks very much. I don't let others manage my money, and I certainly don't let the egghead community run my life.
 
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Nobody has addressed one of the main points in the original article. If Global warming is man made, and so well researched, why did scientists have to "finesse" their figures to demonstrate the fact? It reminds me of the "sexing up" of the WMD reports. Anything to achieve an end.

The fact is, that they too, are are all just whistling in the dark, trying to scare more research money out of the governments to finance their gravy train.

Cause if they said it is happening slowly over a period on several hundred years, nobody would listen to them, and by the time someday did listen to them it would be too late. Not to say it isn't already too late, just my idea of why they finessed it. either that or somebody's wallet is gettin really thick
 
Peer reviewed science, eh? I'd say criminal deception with intent to defraud would be closer to the truth.

I found your attempt to introduce the word "trick" in one of it's more obscure meanings is typical of this whole issue, nothing is what we are being led to believe,... smoke and mirrors abound,... and for what possible reason other than to cover up a scam.

Al very reminiscent of the mad panic about the hole in the ozone layer about 5 - 10 years ago. With countries like China and other previously second world countries now releasing more chloroflurocarbons into our atmosphere than ever before, The hole has dropped right off the panic list as it is now considered to be on the mend, something we were panicked into believing could not begin to happen until at least 2050 if all useage was stopped immediately (1990s)

Cry,... Wolf!!!

So you have decided not to believe in the Ozone hole as well?

As far as I can tell most people accept the hole exists and take precautions such as wearing T-Shirts, sunscreen, hats and limiting their exposure times and I bet you are no different, I can't help but believe mankind would still be living in caves had we all had your resistance to development and learning.

I've got my fill of scandals, Thanks, I don't need to go looking for more.

I don't believe the energy companies either they are as bad as their opponents. I do work these things out for myself, and so far I must say that I'm rarely disappointed with my outcomes. The climate change panic attempt, stinks like week old road kill, the perpetrators are not even convincing deceivers.

I'll make all of my own mistakes thanks very much. I don't let others manage my money, and I certainly don't let the egghead community run my life.

Yet you drive, watch TV, take medical advice, use firearms, cook in ovens, grow or at least eat crops, use computers all with items devised and/or refined by the "egghead community" so are you sure they don't run your life?
 
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Originally Posted by senojekips
Nobody has addressed one of the main points in the original article. If Global warming is man made, and so well researched, why did scientists have to "finesse" their figures to demonstrate the fact? It reminds me of the "sexing up" of the WMD reports. Anything to achieve an end.

Because they aren't. The Denialist industry is spinning it for those who don't look beyonds the edited statements! Imagine if every single Email you or you Company made was hacked, scrutinised and edited out of context for controversy and was made public and most of the Public with limited time and attention span wanted to believe these Emails were signs of corruption. This is the sort of situation these Scientists face.

The information is already there, there are perfectly acceptable explanations if you look beyond these isolated statements.

All I can suggest is that you are demonstrating you are not thinking for yourself. Have you read the reports to which these statements relate? It suddenly becomes clear. If you want a short option look at the last video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P70Sl...layer_embedded
 
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