I found this article very interesting
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/...ming020507.htm


I would just like to quote this one piece for right now

In another instance, I was accused by Canadian environmentalist David Suzuki of being paid by oil companies. That is a lie. Apparently he thinks if the fossil fuel companies pay you have an agenda. So if Greenpeace, Sierra Club or governments pay there is no agenda and only truth and enlightenment?

A very interesting article. Time to start digging and see what else I can find about this. After reading it I remembered as a kid being told another Ice Age was coming. I was 9-10 years old and remember reading endlessly about mammoths and other items of interest to prepare for what the world was going to be like when I was grown.

Personally I do hope the seas rise but only if people are not allowed to evacuate as the bulk of them are in coastal cities and most people are not worth saving in my humble anti-social opinion... and my family and in laws are both living up in the mountains of their respective countries.

next,I know it.
World poverty and War and war for desire.
Nothing new.
Anyway,reducing oil demand may reduce Islam terrorist.

The bottom line is yes the climate is changing, guess what it has been changing for millions of years!

Are humans at fault? Are dinosaurs at fault? Are Volcanoes at fault?

Most evidence (real evidence, not stuff produced by scientists that study grasshoppers and got paid to say this and that) points in the direction of it not being our fault.

As for the reduction of oil, we already see what is the effect of us trying to use more ethanol and the price of corn going up. Which has def. pissed off a few countries (cough cough Mexico). But environmentalists (the wacko kind) don't think about these types of ramifications nor do politicians and then the news media just slams it down Joe Schmo publics throat and we now have a bunch of improperly informed people running around thinking they are saving or ending the world....

Most evidence (real evidence, not stuff produced by scientists that study grasshoppers and got paid to say this and that) points in the direction of it not being our fault.

I thought evidence is what scientists work on. They are subject to scrutiny using objective evidence. Other 'professions' such as politicians and business people have the luxury of rhetoric, fantasy, subjectivity and scaremongering and are paid off accordingly. Oh if we place emission limits the economy will collapse. So what? that's what's causing the problem, too many people trying to produce more than they could possibly consume and certainly enjoy and working themselves into an early grave in the process.

With regard to if humans are causing it, it's a bit of a no brainier. The temperature hasn't stayed relatively constant for the best part of a 1000 years then suddenly gone up in the last 50-100 because of a coincidence. The only thing which can cause such a sudden change (in the absence of a massive increase in volcanic activity or asteroid strikes etc) is human activity.

I think it may be because most people don't understand the scientific method which Thomas Kuhn so skilfully and briefly set out in his book "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions." A scientist makes certain assumptions and then produces a theory which is only as valid as the assumptions.

Perhaps he hasn't read another great scientific philosopher, Karl Popper who claimed that science progresses via criticism & refutation. Global warming has been subject to more of this than any theory in history

The theory of Global Warming assumes that CO2 is an atmospheric greenhouse gas and as it increases temperatures rise. It was then theorized that since humans were producing more CO2 than before, the temperature would inevitably rise.

There are no assumptions about CO2 being a greenhouse gas, it is, along with methane, N20 and O3. It is inherent in their ability to absorb and radiate heat at different wavelengths. The theory is simple and beyond any doubt. The only question is how much, how fast and how long will it take?

Maybe I can finally afford some beach property in about a million years.

Perseus...

No brainer you are trying to tell me that a thousand year sample is a no brainer that it is humans fault when a planet has been changing climates for millions of years...Or do you believe that the planet has only existed for 10,000 years????

Start looking at the "medieval warm period" the predecessor to the "little ice age"

And there is sooooooooooooo many more factors involved then "greenhouse" gases...Especialy just CO2 (think volcanoes on that too) a more important cause of current conditions could be related to the past use of CFCs (chlorofluorocarbons)....Remember these gases will stay in the upper atmosphere for like 30+ years....

I wonder if the fact the days have gotten longer and the years shorter in the past few thousand years has anything to do with it either...Perhaps a correlation with the change of earths orbit being affected by the moon...hmm maybe we should be blaming the moon...I know let's blow it up.....hahah no but keep reading....

You look at this with blinders on and you should try and allow your BS light to come on more often...

Please....

-edit
When I have more free time I will give you a plethora of information to exam...don't worry

And I sure hope you weren't trying to assume I was some non-scientific type...for you would be sorely mistaken....

Start here
http://vathena.arc.nasa.gov/curric/l.../climchng.html

Ultimately the climate was going to change one way or another, it is going up now because it was going down for the previous 500 years. "The Little Ice Age" as it is being called now had a huge impact on Western history, it was part of the reasons the Vikings swept down from the north, it was part of the reason that the plague was so terrible and wiped out so many, it was a part of every day life all across the world and with the exception of those killed by the plague its effects were relatively minor. HOWEVER, human waste is definitely a very powerful contributor to the current trend, if 90% of all scientists are telling you something you need to sit up and listen because odds are they know what they are talking about. If 90% of the scientists who study this issue say that man is having a massive effect we have to listen. I do believe that global warming is an issue, but it is a slow growing, slow moving, slow dying issue two or three years of delay on the part of the United States will not have that much of an effect in the long run. Right now the US has not necessarilly bigger but more pressing issues, we need to come up with a viable plan to get our troops out of Iraq and leave Iraq with a stable democracy, we also need to fix our southern and northern borders, then we should start working on global warming. The other two should be solvable within a couple years, the latter one is something for which a couple years is meaningless. But another important note is that nations such as China and India should not be given a free hand to polute as they will just because they have a "developing nation" status. There are over two billion people in those two countries, even the smallest change there will send shockwaves around the world.

Originally Posted by Damien435

Ultimately the climate was going to change one way or another, it is going up now because it was going down for the previous 500 years. "The Little Ice Age" as it is being called now had a huge impact on Western history, it was part of the reasons the Vikings swept down from the north, it was part of the reason that the plague was so terrible and wiped out so many, it was a part of every day life all across the world and with the exception of those killed by the plague its effects were relatively minor. HOWEVER, human waste is definitely a very powerful contributor to the current trend, if 90% of all scientists are telling you something you need to sit up and listen because odds are they know what they are talking about. If 90% of the scientists who study this issue say that man is having a massive effect we have to listen. I do believe that global warming is an issue, but it is a slow growing, slow moving, slow dying issue two or three years of delay on the part of the United States will not have that much of an effect in the long run. Right now the US has not necessarilly bigger but more pressing issues, we need to come up with a viable plan to get our troops out of Iraq and leave Iraq with a stable democracy, we also need to fix our southern and northern borders, then we should start working on global warming. The other two should be solvable within a couple years, the latter one is something for which a couple years is meaningless. But another important note is that nations such as China and India should not be given a free hand to polute as they will just because they have a "developing nation" status. There are over two billion people in those two countries, even the smallest change there will send shockwaves around the world.

Show me this 90% statistic....

Even NASA says that one could not be certian with the evidence given that humans are a factor....

Think of the millions of years this planet has supposedly existed....And then think that the climate has been exactly the same...riiight

Furthermore have a look at this http://vathena.arc.nasa.gov/curric/l...al/pollen.html This depicts 18,000 years of plant distribution in North America...Now I'm not saying we all go out an pollute that is obviously dumb...Let's also not forget that China has had far more serious "environmental accidents" in the past few years then in the US...

Every true scientific document (not main stream news media garbage) has stated that we can not guarantee HUMAN INTERACTION is the true cause of our current climate change...If anything it may not be our pollution but our allowing of the deforestation of the rain forest which is causing the rise in CO2 emissions since the rain forest along with the ocean is a HUGE filter of this gas....

-edit

A nice little animation created by The Illinois State Museum which shows the retreat of ice in North America in past 18,000 years, remember that the last glaciation was 20,000 years ago....

http://www.museum.state.il.us/exhibi...laurentide.mpg
(Note: "kya" means Thousand Years Ago)

And I really think this should make everyone ponder a little bit and play some devils advocate

Complications - for those who like such things

The situation is not simple since there are other factors involved. For example, water vapor is a powerful greenhouse gas. You might think that if it is warmer the ocean would evaporate more, putting more vapor into the air, which would make it still warmer. However, a warmer and moister climate might make more plants grow, and these tend to remove carbon dioxide. Moreover, if the water vapor condenses into clouds (which are not vapor but liquid water drops of ice crystals) the white clouds reflect sunlight back into space (an effect called albedo) before it can warm the Earth. You can see that the Earth's atmosphere is part of a complicated system.

Source: http://vathena.arc.nasa.gov/curric/l.../greenhou.html

An interesting article again from NASA but this time the Jet Propulsion Laboratory about the effects of earthquakes on the earth
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2005-009

This again like the moon changes our orbit, tilt, and rotational speed all which would affect our exposure to the sun thus being another piece in the puzzle that makes earth's climate work and change.....

Again remind me why this is a "no brainer"...hehehe...
Whose ready for the ride down the rabbit hole

Donkey, 72% of all statistics are fake.