It's probably in some other forum, but I think this is political so I'm putting mine here. What the **** is the liberal left trying to do here with this Gitmo distraction? All this about us big bad Americans mistreating some terrorist sand creature by not letting him take a piss and not having the room at just the right temperature and making him listen to rap music as forms of torture? WOW. Big ****ing deal! Nevermind the fact that this guy and his cohorts wouldn't hesitate to cut off heads off civilian contractors or drag thier freshly burned bodies and hang them from a bridge. Nevermind all the IED's he might have set up or helped to set up. Nevermind the fact that he might be the 20th hijacker. And nevermind the fact that he may have information on the world's most wanted terrorist. BUT GOD FORBID WE DENY POOR LITTLE TERRORIST MAN A CHANCE TO GO PEE PEE! People need to grow the **** up and quit whining about Gitmo. Come off it, guys.

Now if I where running Guantanamo... oh boy would I get answers from these people.

I found it interesting that Time magazine listed among the "tortures" that the 20th hijacker, Mohammed al-Qahtani, received was that he was shown a bunch of banana rats and told that he was "lower than them" which "made him cry". Seems that guy at least is a (meow).

will comment on this after the weekend

"may" "would" "might"... innocent till proven guilty mate, its part and parcel of the law of the land. The military lawyers themselves have filed suit as it is not possible for these defendant/prisoners to get a fair trial. There are clear violations of international law, US law and the Geneva Convention occuring in Camp Delta. If you want to santion this behaviour and withdraw from civilized society and sink down to the level of child killer... remember that you reap what you sow. And in the end it is the grunt who followed the orders that will pay the price for the folly of the politician, be he general or president.

Oh, so you think American soldiers are killing children in Guantanamo now?

Where did he say american soldiers were child killers? He said that if the behaviour was sanctioned you would be dropping to the level of a child killer. Not that the soldiers were child killers.
I feel that if we allow ourselves to drop to the level where we abuse prisoners and still claim that we are civilised then we are no better than those inside.

Originally Posted by silent driller

It's probably in some other forum, but I think this is political so I'm putting mine here. What the f**k is the liberal left trying to do here with this Gitmo distraction? All this about us big bad Americans mistreating some terrorist sand creature by not letting him take a piss and not having the room at just the right temperature and making him listen to rap music as forms of torture?

I think you are being somewhat misleading here by under playing the treatment as mild perhaps a look at the source of of the information you are quoting may help

Senator Richard Durbin refers to:

When you read some of the graphic descriptions of what has occurred here [at Guantanamo Bay]--I almost hesitate to put them in the [Congressional] Record, and yet they have to be added to this debate. Let me read to you what one FBI agent saw. And I quote from his report:

"On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for 18-24 hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold. . . . On another occasion, the [air conditioner] had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion, not only was the temperature unbearably hot, but extremely loud rap music was being played in the room, and had been since the day before, with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor."

If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime--Pol Pot or others--that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.

WOW. Big f***ing deal! Nevermind the fact that this guy and his cohorts wouldn't hesitate to cut off heads off civilian contractors or drag thier freshly burned bodies and hang them from a bridge. Nevermind all the IED's he might have set up or helped to set up. Nevermind the fact that he might be the 20th hijacker.

I will answer this using a quote from the same source because I think its a rather perceptive statement...

Military sources, according to the media, indicate that many detainees have no connection to al-Qaida or the Taliban and were sent to Guantanamo over the objections of intelligence personnel who recommended their release. One military officer said: "We're basically condemning these guys to a long-term imprisonment. If they weren't terrorists before, they certainly could be now."

Now before you all go off on the "liberal" bandwagon I am happy to say that I dont care what you do with terrorists, take them out and shoot them , pluck their finger nails out one by one or dress them as children and lock them in a room with Michael Jackson for all I care but first convict them of terrorism as the problem many people have with Guantanamo is not that the place exists so much as it is about holding them indefinately not as POWs and not as criminals with charges. But just seemingly holding them forever in a state of limbo where you get to mistreat them.

Oh and the source I quoted from
http://durbin.senate.gov/gitmo.cfm

Originally Posted by bulldogg

"may" "would" "might"... innocent till proven guilty mate, its part and parcel of the law of the land. The military lawyers themselves have filed suit as it is not possible for these defendant/prisoners to get a fair trial. There are clear violations of international law, US law and the Geneva Convention occuring in Camp Delta. If you want to santion this behaviour and withdraw from civilized society and sink down to the level of child killer... remember that you reap what you sow. And in the end it is the grunt who followed the orders that will pay the price for the folly of the politician, be he general or president.

The Geneva Convention only applies to uniformed soldiers, not terrorists.

I'm pretty sure those "people" aren't there because they were handing flowers to american soldiers. As someone said the geneva convention doesn't apply to these "people."

Incase some of you are not familiar with what the Geneva convention actually states.

Part 1 Article 4 section 2

"2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. "

source - http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm

As you can see the insurgents in iraq or any terriost for that matter or any supporters of insurgents, meet none of these conditions.
I don't believe in the use of torture to extract information though, because it is usually false. This waste american resources in hunting down false leads thats given just to make the torture stop.
As much as this pains me to say maybe the key is to offer a ticket home for correct intelligence, and maybe asylum in the US for something such as turning Osama.