[QUOTE=Partisan;520024]Ditto for 13th, also make sure that the ROE are clear & simple, that enable the soldiers to do the job & ensure t

I went to German over the summer last yer. Ein schoene Land, Freunde.

Anyways, the people over there are similar to here, the youth at least, question why we're overseas. They don't know why we're in Iraq or Afghanistan. Or Pakistan for that matter. (Are we in Pakistan?) Anyways, I believe the the volunteer army is important, but I understand the culture of Germany a little, and citizens fear of another Hitler. Too much military is scary to them I think. I'm proud that germany is backing us in Afghanistan, but should they pull out? Politically it shows support and keeps us tied closer as friends. I'm sure the GSG-9 or KSK train with our Special Forces. All of that is good. On the other hand, you do suffer some casualties and are spending money. As long as the money is spent in your country on weapons and such, and you aren't blowing too much else, your country should be benefiting financially, but I'm no economist nor do I know Germany that well. I think people need to be reminded what we're fighting for, people scoff at All Qeuda, they scoff because they think we're over there for oil. I'm sure if you ask any Spec Ops man, they could tell you the Intel Reports they receive and the danger that lurks. People these days are very cynical about military, gov't wise, but not the gov't itself. As we have Obama as president, he, being Liberal, would tend to like more control over our country.

I think the Germans would vote getting out of Afghanistan if they don't realize what we're fighting for. The soldiers overseas, a large majority, want to finish the fight, but the people here are selfish, as they only care about the soldiers well-being, a sacrificial selfishness on someones part. If Obama starts supporting Iraq, maybe Germany will change their minds, but I think they'll want out.

I agree in many ways with you Chad. Yes- 'Americas lust for oil' is a big topic. Everytime I hear that I try to get that out of peoples mind but it's really hard.
To my mind people will onyl realize what's happening world wide if we were attacked directly- not that I want dead people but we had some activity but no harm done to German Citizens- that's why we don't feel the need to protect world wide security.
does that make sense?

It's a bit like safety features being added after people start dying.
Just the way the world works I suppose.

All I hear about German forces in Afghanistan is how much alcohol they drink and how fat they are.

what you are proposing is a "mercenary-like" system, I'm afraid that's not a possible solution here

Works for us, a private can make close to $100 000 in 8 months.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

3 years old? Holy sh*t I feel old.

Makes me feel ancient!

Originally Posted by Wallabies

All I hear about German forces in Afghanistan is how much alcohol they drink and how fat they are.

Well at least Germans can drink- we start with our first beer at about 13-14 years, good training . I remember American people coming to Germany and getting totally lost with alcohol- some of them getting a serious alcohol poisoning, 21 is the age to drink a beer right? About the fatness I must say this seems to be a problem though for me personally- I did not yet meet many fat soldiers at the University of the Armed Forces or in the Air Force Ground Combat Regiment, those kind of soldiers would not master the training to get the status combat ready thus not getting a chance to go to missions abroad. This is all I can say about it.

Originally Posted by ObjSRgtLw

I agree in many ways with you Chad. Yes- 'Americas lust for oil' is a big topic. Everytime I hear that I try to get that out of peoples mind but it's really hard.
To my mind people will only realize what's happening world wide if we were attacked directly- not that I want dead people but we had some activity but no harm done to German Citizens- that's why we don't feel the need to protect world wide security.
does that make sense?

Exactly the attitude Americans had up to the bombing of Pearl Harbor

Originally Posted by ObjSRgtLw

With the rising death toll the voices who question the whole mission are becoming louder here. Not many know a decent and satisfying answer to questions like- why are we risking our soldiers there and what are we actually doing in Afghanistan. Conscript soldiers recently posed these questions in a newly opened forum to the Minister of Defense and other high ranking military related persons, without getting a satisfying answer it seemed. For most soldiers it is all about the extra money (like in many more countries). With regards to the upcoming election the motion damanding to pullback German troops is getting stronger.
Any thoughts, ideas, propositions etc.?
Start the discussion please.

Exfiltrate all German forces out of "The Stan", the ROE,s they are operating under are impossible to maintain.
Either that or change out the entire leadership of the country.
My bet is on the extraction happening first.

If you know any operators, tell them to refuse to deploy under the rediculous ROE,s they had last time out as well.
OEF forces that are not able to do the job is a serious waste of tax payers money and gives the german armed forces a black eye among operators from other nations.

MHO.
//KJ.

you are probably right...