Originally Posted by Bootboy82

SU Civilians: 7.420.379
SU soldiers: 19.180.000
German overall military casualties: 3.500.000 (including Austrians and Sudeten Germans)

(Source: German Wikipedia.org)

In a tv documentary about the liberation of Europe, they said that nearly 80% of the german military casualties occurred on the Eastern Front. (That would be around 2.800.000 deads.)

this is german source, so ... but never mind
just one thing, we know that german army during the war was in position to take more than 500 000 prisoners in one action sometimes, who knows how many millions in all. most of them did not survive the war. the same thing happened to them after the breakdown of wermacht. that could mean that german casualties could be bigger, in general.

The worst misrepresentation of the numbers has always been on the Soviet Unions part. Consider the "non-existence" of Operation Mars.

A reliable count on German casualties is certainly questionable, but consider something. Germany painstakingly kept count of how many people they murdered in their Death Camps. If they were accurate on that, it stands to reason that their records for battlefield casualties is very accurate. Also, over half of the Russian soldiers that died were worked to death in German forced labor camps. That tends to inflate the Soviet losses somewhat.

The link that Doppelganger provided ( http://pkka.narod.ru/h-ind.htm ) is a Russian source.

Originally Posted by serbianpower

this is german source, so ... but never mind
just one thing, we know that german army during the war was in position to take more than 500 000 prisoners in one action sometimes, who knows how many millions in all. most of them did not survive the war. the same thing happened to them after the breakdown of wermacht. that could mean that german casualties could be bigger, in general.

I doubt very much that Wehrmacht casualties were greater than Red Army casualties and have seen nothing that even suggests that was possible. The figure you mentioned appears to be the generally accepted casualty losses for the Wehrmacht and can find nothing that really disputes it.

Yup.....1 German on 20 Rooskies......
Germans are born heroes
Though US Army stoke them hard, and I would say that US is better, ESPECIALLY under Patton

Just what courage did it take to land on Normandy? huh

1 important thing about Russian military casualties : about 5-10% only of Russian POW survived their fate, so if you consider the huge numbers of POW the germans made in the big 41 & 42 encirclements, you must admit that these casualty numbers don't reflect the sole field operations

And, yes Glanz is considered by some to be biaised, IIRC it's about the Soviet strategical awareness in the first 6 months of Barbarossa but I'm not sure (and not enough educated on the subjet to say whether he's biaised or not)

Silly Uncle Sam. Always putting in a plug for the good ol' USA whether its relevant or not. You must realize that Normandy is completely off-topic, right?

I don't know if I'd call the Germans heroes, as that depends on your perspective. Whitman and Barkman must have seemed a lot more like demons than heroes to the Soviet soldiers fighting against them.

Originally Posted by PE_Sushi

1 important thing about Russian military casualties : about 5-10% only of Russian POW survived their fate, so if you consider the huge numbers of POW the germans made in the big 41 & 42 encirclements, you must admit that these casualty numbers don't reflect the sole field operations

And, yes Glanz is considered by some to be biaised, IIRC it's about the Soviet strategical awareness in the first 6 months of Barbarossa but I'm not sure (and not enough educated on the subjet to say whether he's biaised or not)

But they were captured on the battlefield...
____________________________
LOL... What can You do... But did I lie?
_
For the moment let's "Forget" they were nazis, and just concentrate on that how they fight.... From that perspective.....I would say they are hellova fighters...

I just meant that, if you compare with other countries' casualties, the result is biaised because way more of their POWs came back. With the same POW death rate than the russian's, other countries would have higher casualties numbers.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

I doubt very much that Wehrmacht casualties were greater than Red Army casualties and have seen nothing that even suggests that was possible. The figure you mentioned appears to be the generally accepted casualty losses for the Wehrmacht and can find nothing that really disputes it.

read carefuly what I wrote boooy. I did not say that german casualties were greater than russian. of course that CCCP had bigger loses. what I am sayin is that there is no way to know for sure how many german solders died in gulags and working camps all over the russia after the war. if u would add this number to this 2800000 u would find that german losses were greater than u expected.

Originally Posted by Uncle_Sam

Yup.....1 German on 20 Rooskies......
Germans are born heroes
Though US Army stoke them hard, and I would say that US is better, ESPECIALLY under Patton

Just what courage did it take to land on Normandy? huh

americans, new zealand, france, poland, great britain, canada, resistace and partisans all over the europe were fighting with 25 % of german force. it was much easier to stroke them hard then to russians, specialy in 1944. u better think before u say somehing.