This is essentially the equivalent of China invading Taiwan. Rebel province, split allegiances, major power backer.

The Georgians wanted their province back so they attacked, the Russians stepped in and have brutally, fought, as in have not made much of an effort at all to avoid civilian casualties. As long as the Russians don't try to march on Georgia itself, I don't see the return of the big bad bear anytime soon.

Originally Posted by SHERMAN

SO is a part of georgia, and all you guys saying georgia started this, imagine how russia would react if another country helped chechnian rebels?

Indeed SO is part of Georgia but in 1992 -1994 it became autonomous state and Russian peacekeepers were deployed there, this problem was reasonably under control until last week when Georgia suddenly declared that they had taken over control of the area and sent troops in the regions capital in the process killing somewhere between 10 and 30 Russian Peacekeepers.

So while I don't think Russia was looking to avoid a conflict it does appear that it was Georgia that started the shooting.

Essentially I don't see this as being any different to the break up of Yugoslavia but perhaps without the genocide.

I also think it relevant that both of these break away regions have made it clear that they want to join Russia.

Originally Posted by SHERMAN

SO is a part of georgia, and all you guys saying georgia started this, imagine how russia would react if another country helped chechnian rebels?

What you'all don't understand is this little war isn't about South Ossentia or Abkhazia (the other breakway area) that the Russians were "protecting".
Russia doesn't give a damn about either place, this is about Georgia itself.

This isn't a land grab, its about spheres of political influance. Russia has made it clear that it will not tolerate a Western backed NATO country on its backyard. This is an attempt to destabilize and undermine Georgia by causing ethnic areas of Georgia to split away.

Russia is also testing NATO and the US response to see how much it can get away with, because if it can manage to stop the Westernization in Georgia then it will almost certain focus its attention on other former Soviet Republics.

Originally Posted by 03USMC

Huuuh? Whhhhhattttt? Clear it up.

We the united states of America PAY THE SOLDIERS THAT GUARD RUSSIA'S NUCLEAR WEAPONS. are u happy because the Russian government cant pay them because there in dept with them selves.

Originally Posted by WARMUNGER

We the united states of America PAY THE SOLDIERS THAT GUARD RUSSIA'S NUCLEAR WEAPONS. are u happy because the Russian government cant pay them because there in dept with them selves.

Oops.
ROFLMAO

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHERMAN
SO is a part of georgia, and all you guys saying georgia started this, imagine how russia would react if another country helped chechnian rebels?


What you'all don't understand is this little war isn't about South Ossentia or Abkhazia (the other breakway area) that the Russians were "protecting".
Russia doesn't give a damn about either place, this is about Georgia itself.

This isn't a land grab, its about spheres of political influance. Russia has made it clear that it will not tolerate a Western backed NATO country on its backyard. This is an attempt to destabilize and undermine Georgia by causing ethnic areas of Georgia to split away.

Russia is also testing NATO and the US response to see how much it can get away with, because if it can manage to stop the Westernization in Georgia then it will almost certain focus its attention on other former Soviet Republics.

LOL. mmarsh, i completely agree. however, as some members were suggesting blame falls on georgia, i made a point about the hypocracy of russians helping other peoples rebels. There is no doubt in my mind that russia simply wants to make a show of force in order to regain its controll ofver georgia and other neighbores. this is a power politics move, and a very good one. Ill tell you a little secret-its going to work!

Sherman

Its true that the Georgians started the fighting, but they were goaded into it.

Do you know what this reminds me of? The assassination of Emperor Franz-Ferdinand in 1914. You might remember that the Austro-Hungarians goaded the Serbs into doing something rather rash (the assination) in order to justify military intervention in Serbia.

Here we have got a similar situation, the Russians had been aiding the Rebellion in Ossentia and Abkhazia so that the Georgians would eventually respond...unfortuntly the Georgians took the bait just as the Serb Nationalists did in 1914.

Remember how the Russians said on TV they were "protecting" its citizens? Well what they didnt mention was that Russia had been giving out free Russian citizenship to everybody in Ossentia over the past 5 years, so now when the Georgians sought to quell the rebels and the bandits in Abkhazia (banditry is a big problem there) the Russians had the PERFECT excuse to attack.

That's absolutely correct Mmarsh.
So now what the heck do we do eh? If NATO doesn't help Georgia in any way, is there any meaning in becoming a NATO member? I know Georgia isn't a NATO member yet but they've been working hard to try to become one and the US has been backing Georgia but some EU countries haven't been so enthusiastic (probably because Georgia's regime isn't one of the nicest ones out there).
Also if the West's response is weak in Georgia, the former Soviet Republics will be feeling very nervous about all dealings with Russia wouldn't they?

What is wrong with helping rebels? We do it all the time, SO was only part of Georgia because of lines on a map the people want nothing to do with Georgia. You don't bombard a provence then send in tanks, and ground troops unless there are serious issues.

NATO on the Russian boarder can be seen as a threat. How we would have reacted if Mexico joined the Warsaw Pact and allowed Russian forces on our boarder?

Originally Posted by mmarsh

This isn't a land grab, its about spheres of political influance. Russia has made it clear that it will not tolerate a Western backed NATO country on its backyard. This is an attempt to destabilize and undermine Georgia by causing ethnic areas of Georgia to split away.

The citiens of south Ossetia are mostly Russian and with the attack from the Georgian forces recently into South Ossetia to crack the rebels - Russia had to deal with the "threat" to protect their own citizens. I believe only Russia in the world has accepted South Ossetia as a state - no others as far as I can tell. Perhaps some one else on this forum have some info on this?

Georgia military backed by the USA has applied for a membership of NATO but been rejected by the other NATO countries due to a) What the f--k has NATO to do in the Kaukasus and b) Is Georgia financially and politically ready for a NATO membership?

If Georgia was a member of NATO at this moment, the alliance most likely would been at war with Russia - not a nice scenario with NATO troops spread over in Afghanistan and Iraq. Never the less Georgia would probably been adviced to stay out of South Ossetia.

Who knows?