Fuel Air Bomb in WW2?

About Fuel Air Bomb in WW2? Page 2


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February 10th, 2006   #11
edrob357
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohmar Deathstrike
Some fuel air bombs are as destructive as small nukes. To me, their techology appears to be far simpler than that required to develop nuclear weapons.

Is the reason they weren't used in WW2 that nobody had planes big enough to carry one?
They have known of the concept of Fuel/Air bombs for several centuries now as a result of windmills occasionally blowing up because someone exposed a naked flame in the mill (for whatever reason) and the Flour/air mix does the same thing (you throw a handful of flour onto a fire- you'll see). The main problem was how to mix the fuel in the air in the right proportion to ensure maximum effect on burning. Not mixed enough, you might as well drop napalm, too much (diluted) and most of it wouldn't ignite. The allies reckoned that the bombs they had did the job well enough that they could worry about the fuel/air bomb after they had won the war in question.
 
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December 20th, 2008   #12
Mark Conley
 
 
Its not that they did'nt know about it...its just that the way planes were shot down percluded the safe use of one.

a bomber could carry the device sure. but no one at that time could make one safe enough so that despite being holed by ball round ammo (cannon or machine gun) it wouldnt go off. its gas under pressure. a lot of gas. a whole lot of pressure.

lots of japaneese fighters. lots of german fighters. fighters have big guns and cannons on them. one round from these S.O.Bs through that fuel bomb, and you had instant fried aircraft. or at worst, a projectile that blew itself out the side of the aircraft.

thats why they started off with incinderys and napalm. a lot more safer to carry.


“If we should have to fight, we should be prepared to do so from the neck up instead of from the neck down.”— General James H. Doolittle, USAAF

Last edited by Mark Conley; December 20th, 2008 at 18:45..
 
December 21st, 2008   #13
Chukpike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean
Right in one. Although in their defense, the timing of an FAE is tricky. If the squib goes off too fast, the fuel-air mixture will be too rich and it will not burn well. If it goes off too late, the explosion will be small... if there is one. The technology to time such a bomb did exist at the end of the war, (the atomic bombs had them) but not at the beginning.

Dean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Conley
Its not that they did'nt know about it...its just that the way planes were shot down percluded the safe use of one.

a bomber could carry the device sure. but no one at that time could make one safe enough so that despite being holed by ball round ammo (cannon or machine gun) it wouldnt go off. its gas under pressure. a lot of gas. a whole lot of pressure.

thats why they started off with incinderys and napalm. a lot more safer to carry.
A fuel air bomb would not go off in it's intended explosion by being hit with a round from a fighter. Would not have the proper air fuel mixture. It is fallacy that high pressure cylinders explode when punctured, like in the movie Jaws. A hole in a high pressure cylinder allows a high pressure leak until exhausted. Fuel/air mixture not met.

The idea of a bomber worrying about any kind of bomb going off when attacked by a fighter might preclude their use in the first place.
 
December 22nd, 2008   #14
Mark Conley
 
 
Ok..now i am really really puzzled...

the 22 years of working in an industry where high pressure flasks were present suggests that putting any kind of hole in any high pressure flask is a definite no-no. even the low (low?) pressure flasks for firemen in their scba set ups are treated with quite a bit of respect by their wearers.

a military round in WW II wasnt anything to sneeze at. this ammo was designed to bring down aircraft. the german cannon rounds even had explosive heads. do you think for one second if you shot at a high pressure cylinder that something nasty wasnt going to happen?

http://www.spirig.org/fileadmin/medi...detonation.pdf heres a link to a accident that happened with high pressure bottles. now, all this bottle did was torpedo. 200 meters. thats a lot of energy. and this was just a bursting accident. it wasnt mechanically brought on.

the shark in jaws wasnt blown up by a shot at tank exploding. the shark blew up because a charge on the tank from a special effects man liberated all the gas (air) stored at 4500 pound per square inch at once. its quite a release of energy.

now imagine all that gas in a tank, trying to escape in an aircraft. if the flask only torpedoed, it would just punch through the side and go out the side of the aircraft. if they werent lucky, then it might burst and release all the gas at once. ever over inflated a ballon with high pressure air? although most aircraft in WWII werent pressurized, the holes in the fusalage wouldnt be big enough to allow all that expansion to be released gently...something else would blow.

I dont think it was thought of something bad happening..it is the bad happening.
 
December 22nd, 2008   #15
Chukpike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Conley
Ok..now i am really really puzzled...

the 22 years of working in an industry where high pressure flasks were present suggests that putting any kind of hole in any high pressure flask is a definite no-no. even the low (low?) pressure flasks for firemen in their scba set ups are treated with quite a bit of respect by their wearers.
I agree holes in high pressure vessals are a no-no. High pressure is considered over 500lbs, this includes scuba and firemans breathing apparatus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Conley
a military round in WW II wasnt anything to sneeze at. this ammo was designed to bring down aircraft. the german cannon rounds even had explosive heads. do you think for one second if you shot at a high pressure cylinder that something nasty wasnt going to happen?

http://www.spirig.org/fileadmin/medi...detonation.pdf heres a link to a accident that happened with high pressure bottles. now, all this bottle did was torpedo. 200 meters. thats a lot of energy. and this was just a bursting accident. it wasnt mechanically brought on.
Do you think for one second that a fighter shooting at another plane did not expect something nasty to happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Conley
the shark in jaws wasnt blown up by a shot at tank exploding. the shark blew up because a charge on the tank from a special effects man liberated all the gas (air) stored at 4500 pound per square inch at once. its quite a release of energy.
"the shark in jaws wasnt blown up by a shot at tank exploding."
That is what the scene was. (Special effects are supposed to be spectacular not necessarily accurate to real life)
It was supposed to be a scuba tank cylinder.
It was not a 4500lb charged cylinder it was a special effect to look like a high pressure cylinder. A Scuba tank is normally charged to no more than 1800lbs. And the cylinder was not a real charged scuba tank. Special effects people maybe crazy, but we are not stupid. Plus the fact that the safety of everyone on a set is paramount. (If we kill the stars the movie stops shooting and we loose our jobs.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Conley
now imagine all that gas in a tank, trying to escape in an aircraft. if the flask only torpedoed, it would just punch through the side and go out the side of the aircraft. if they werent lucky, then it might burst and release all the gas at once. ever over inflated a ballon with high pressure air? although most aircraft in WWII werent pressurized, the holes in the fusalage wouldnt be big enough to allow all that expansion to be released gently...something else would blow.
You miss the whole point. A fighter was shooting at the plane to bring it down. It wasn't shooting at bombs. What the fighter hit to destroy the plane did not matter.

Since the topic is about fuel/air bombs, it should be noted that the first test of a fuel/air bomb was done by the Germans in 1944. By then they had no time to get it into production and no delivery systems left to use it.

Just for information having worked in the special effects industry for years I am perfectly aware of how most effects are accomplished.

Cylinders having their valves broken off can torpedo.
Cylinders properly restrained will go no where. Bombs in bomb bays are restrained until released.
 
December 22nd, 2008   #16
Mark Conley
 
 
well good enough for me. I know when the leg iv wizzed on is wet.
 
December 26th, 2008   #17
LeEnfield
 
 
The Lancaster bomber could carry a huge load and often carried a bomb weighing over 22.000 lbs. Now you are talking about what would happen if a cannon shell hit one of these fuel bombs, well I would imagine it would go bang rather like if that cannon shell hit a normal bomb, one way or the other the crew of that bomber would become just another statistic on a memorial wall


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