Hey david, do you have any specs for these Roland 3's?

GuyontheRight, please go to one of the original CNN news articles that documented the finding of French Roland Missiles in Iraqi:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/...sprj.irq.main/

Inside this article is a link noted as “ROLAND” and by clicking on this and you will find some specs but these are scant. As for the more detailed specs, please go to:

http://www.pmulcahy.com/sams/international_sams.htm

Hopefully this information will prove helpful?

Again....all this stuff is coming from conveniently undisclosed high ranked intelligence sources...
I stick to my gun until you prove me otherwise with facts (and then I would bash my camp!): my sources seem more reliable than yours!
Again here is the link....and its none of the alphabet channel, conspiracy theory sites or alien invasion reports:

http://www.info-france-usa.org/news/...ativepress.asp

Note the official replies on the Roland issue!

I guess you are now questioning the reliability of the 101st Airborne Division, Australian, Polish, and American Special Forces? As for the guns, I guess I will just have to stick to those held by our allies in defense of terrorism who were there. Nonetheless, I promise to read your input and provide you with feedback when I have the time.

I am not questioning the soldiers on the field....I am questioning the news media, the sources and the intent. There is an agenda, and part of it is proven to be bias and twisted truth thus negating the whole thing.
Again, if I see something believable from believable sources I would believe...I am pretty open minded.
I actually searched the Roland issue....even a link you posted states that France and Germany are not even equiped with the Roland 3....but Saddam was?
Let's look all these things up...
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A quick search can go a long way:

Here is for the Poles...
http://www.jayreding.com/archives/20...missile-claims
http://forums.lemonde.fr/perl/showth...sed&sb=3&part=
As far as Saddam HAVING Roland, remember that France (like the US) was a major arm provider to Saddam until GW1 (Gulf War 1) and half of its inventory was French made or licensed...But all Rolands are not the same!!!

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That was item1...
Item 2 on your shopping list was:
2) France has also come under fire for supplying advanced arms to other potential U.S. adversaries such as China. In fact, the Chinese navy currently employs a version of the French Tavitac, a modified version of the U.S. NTDS (Naval Tactical Data Systems) Link 11. The Link W system employed by China is an unlicensed copy of the U.S. Link 11 supplied to the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) by France. France also has supplied surface-to-air missiles and anti-aircraft radars...blah blah...

Let us replace France by President Clinton and French businesses by American businesses....Nuclear secrets, rocket technology...

http://www.taiwandc.org/washt9908.htm
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...4/203404.shtml
http://www.jonathanpollard.org/1999/030899a.htm

and tons more:
http://www.google.com/search?q=US+se...&start=10&sa=N
Business is business, hein???



Mod Edito NOT post back to back. Put what you need to say in one post.

Please Eric, I can only read one report at the time. Right now, I must return to work, however, two quick points. First, I do love the Statue of Liberty.

Mod Edit: Let people respond to the topic as they wish, no need to badger. Stay on topic.


As a fellow warrior I salute your service; as a proud American I admire the passion, patriotism, and sense of duty you display; and as a person, I respect your opinion. I just wish the current leaders of France had your character traits.

Mod edit: DO NOT POST BACK-TO-Back! Use the edit function.

Hey thanks...
Maybe we can agree that self serving politics is just a stinky business and that professional politicians too often follow their own selfish agendas regardless the best interests of the nation and people they are supposed to serve....

I personally feel somewhat betrayed by France, because we have provided them with military and economic support when they have needed it, but they left us out again on the Iraq issue.

And in during the Bosnian war when they denied US pilots access to their airspace. I think the French are bolstering their own agenda, rather than also helping the agenda's of other countries.

……and on that point, Eric, we both strongly agree!

Originally Posted by cPFC/SAJROTC

I personally feel somewhat betrayed by France, because we have provided them with military and economic support when they have needed it, but they left us out again on the Iraq issue.

And in during the Bosnian war when they denied US pilots access to their airspace. I think the French are bolstering their own agenda, rather than also helping the agenda's of other countries.

All nations serve their own agenda first, otherwise, they would not last as nations for very long. The key is finding out what the agenda is, something shady, or merely national self interest.

The US has let the French down as well. Dienbienphu, Nasser and the Suez Canal, Lebanon. The point is, there are always different perspectives on things.

As a general rule we should not oversentimentalize alliances.