About Facebook group: soldiers are not heroes Page 7
|May 21st, 2011||#61|
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The professions including some kind of risk, firefighters, medics, soldiers and police officers would be closer to a situation calling for a hero to stand up, but they are not the only ones.
Sure, the firefighters, medics and police officers who entered the World Trade Center after the buildings were hit could easily fall into the hero-cathegory, even though some of them probably didn't have any idea of the possibility that the buildings would collapse on top of them.
But then again, who gives a moments thought about the risk they are putting themselves in?
There's plenty of people driving around without properly fastened seat-belts...
The best reason to put the seat-belts on was summed up on a poster I once saw...a typical Highway police trooper, complete with his Baden Powell hat and sunglasses, and the text: "I've never unbuckeled a dead man."
And I'd buy that statment, even though I was more or less born and raised in a Volvo, meaning that either you put the seat-belts on, or you go insane by the ticking and flashing...
I've been on wreck sites, where some truck driver has chosen to drive off a cliff rather than keeping his truck on the road and maybe kill another person, even though he must have known that the plunge into the water would mean certain death to him.
We don't decorate dead truckdrivers...
Nor do we decorate mothers who choose to make sure their child is rescued from a burning building before they try to jump into a rather uncertain safety.
My point here is, there's heroes who never fired a gun, and never was a soldier.
Being a soldier doesn't automaticly make you a hero, it only makes you more prone to end up in a situation calling for a hero.
An act of heroism calls for personal initiative, and a degree of will to sacrifice your own safety on behalf of someone else, they don't teach that in any military academy I know of.
|June 16th, 2011||#62|
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I think it was John Wayne who said in some movie "...a hero is someone who is scared to death but saddles up anyway".
|June 16th, 2011||#63|
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I have not had the time to read all that has been posted here, so please forgive me if I may inadvertently re-duplicate what others may have said. Unfortunately, most heroes are DEAD people. Military personnel SHOULD NOT, I repeat, SHOULD NOT, NEVER attempt to be or become heroes. Kamikaze missions are NOT condoned. One ALWAYS relies on sound training. If one, by any chance, ever hears a commander INAPPROPRIATELY telling them, while in training or, G-d forbid, in combat, something along the lines of "now time has come for us or you to be or become heroes", or something as cockamamie STUPID as this, one should REPORT ASAP, (after the mission is hopefully safely over and one is allowed a break from routine), that particular commander for NEGLIGENCE and possible INCOMPETENCE to that commander's Commander or Chief PLUS to one's unit assigned SAFETY MAINTENANCE Operative person (if one or the equivalent of one exists for that unit).
P.S. When I capitalize anything in whatever I type on the Net, it does NOT mean that I am shouting, or that I am angry, or irritated in any way. It just means I am attempting to EMPHASIZE or ACCENTUATE something important, as if I were STRESSING that word in regular speech, and it is also sometimes meant to allow for better understanding for the truly Global population which may be reading, (including translating), these Public Internet forum discussions, and whose occasional members may have some problems in recepting and accurately deciphering small type vs. LARGE CAPITALIZED TYPED WORDS for a variety of peripheral, or central, or combined reasons.
Last edited by roamsk; June 16th, 2011 at 05:02.. Reason: missing commas, capitalize 1st pers. sing. pronoun "I", adding explanatory P.S.
|June 17th, 2011||#64|
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Not commenting on your content (yet), just mentioning that "common netiquette" considers "emphasizing" not done in capitals but by enclosing the word to be emphasized in "*" for a standard.
E.g., instead of writing
Using capital letters *is* considered shouting...
FWIW, and with all due respect,
15M(ay): Noooobody! ...expects the Spanish Revolution!:
Update SEP 2011: Now reached US, called "Occupy Wall Street" and they claim they invented it. Thanks for learning from Spain!
Last edited by rattler; June 17th, 2011 at 21:01..
|June 27th, 2011||#66|
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@Rattler + @ ALL potentially interested "parties": yes, I see your point. I usually try to be polite in society...but then I get this impish or Devil's Advocate side of me that pushes me to be a little unruly and ask questions like:
1. Who made those netiquette ground rules and did he or she add a Specific provision to them that they are to be Set in Stone like the 10 Commandments for ever and ever ?! Aren't Amendments ever to be permitted ? What is the "legal" or ethically correct way to propose an Amendment to those original rules, who has the right to do it, in which forum, and in which proper manner ? LOL !
2. What about my second assertion re. making a written text more easily or largely accessible for the reading reception disabled who may better understand and/or recept/see CAPITALIZED words rather than non-capitalized ones ?
3. Doesn't one tend to shout a little, and isn't it permitted to do so when finding oneself in an extremely noisy or crowded environment, or when talking to persons who may be har of hearing ? Wouldn't hardness of hearing be considered a disability just like far-sightedness ? LOL !
Don't be mad at me, Rattler. I am trying to fit in just like any other regular guy who is new on a forum. But I already know that historically I may have been considered a little different me too, maybe because I travelled more, or had a funny non-local accent, whatever. It just, I guess, makes me more sensitive towards somehow including those who may seem a bit slightly different than the norm, especially when it has to do with a Public Debate Forum.
Last edited by roamsk; June 27th, 2011 at 05:16.. Reason: adding a comma
|June 27th, 2011||#67|
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I have seen the Facebook page "Soldiers are not Heroes" and must say that I don't beleive that all soldiers are heroes. This is not why I take exception to the page. The underlying message behind the page is that soldiers are wrong to be doing what they are doing and that they are extensions of corrupt governments that are lying to their people. The page is just a Forum for crack pots and conspiracy theorists to dump on the works that we have done. If you don't agree with the War on Terror" than so be it. But to sully the names of the dead is uncalled for. To belittle the acts of the brave is unnessicary. And to denie the wounded the means to recover is just mean. Don't take away the pride of a soldier. Sometimes thats all they have left.
Those Who Live By The Sword Will Be Vaporised With 105mm HESH By Those Of Us Who Have Progressed
|June 27th, 2011||#68|
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What actually makes a hero? I'd argue it's the willingness to make a personal sacrifice for the benefit of others. If you don't find yourself having to resist a voice inside your head urging you to save yourself instead of whatever action you're contemplating, my heart, at least, will refuse to recognize your actions—however legitimately compassionate or courageous they may be—as heroic. Serving others while simultaneously serving oneself can be noble, certainly, but a special kind of nobility attaches itself to those who serve others at a cost to themselves. That's the nobility that tugs at my heart. That's the the kind of behavior I find heroic.
|June 27th, 2011||#69|
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A tiny group of 22,000 people. Small, but fierce and proud, true Caucasian warriors. In 1999, wahabit terrorists from Chechnya wanted to invade their native Dagestan. They, thousands of them, armed fighters, decided to go through the mountains, high up, where population is sparse and they did not count on much resistance. But, the mountain tops are the domain of the Andians, their home. 12 years ago, this little nation made a stand, not just for their Republic, but all of Russia.
As recalled by veteran of Afghan conflict, and the 1999 'mountain war', Andian community leader Magomed Hadulaev: http://visualrian.ru/ru/site/gallery/#421830
(in Russian, sorry, will try to find translation or subtitles), it was a 'fight to the death'. The Chechens tried, day after day, to storm Andian villages in the mountain tops. And the Andian men fought them off each and every time and drove them back. When they fought at night, the Andians hurled down burning tires through the ranks of the wahabits, and shot any human figures lit up by the flames. The whole Andian nation took part in the battle. Men fought, women and children brought food, ammunition, homemade explosives to the front lines, carried away and treated the wounded.
The fighting went on for a month (7th August to 14th September 1999). After, regular Russian forces came in
wahabis fled back to Chechnya, Russian military came in after them, deposed them, and Chechnya was brought back into Russia.
1 Andian died. 1. Also 270 regular troops, at other fronts. Wahabits lost 2500 men all in all, and most of that - in the mountains, against the Andians.
Eventually, Putin himself had come to Dagestan and met Andian leaders to thank them for everything
27 Andians (21 men and 6 women) were awarded the title Hero of Russia after 1999.
|June 29th, 2011||#70|
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1. I believe the Andian people would better fit the definition of a "warrior" people, maybe like the Spartans, rather than "heroes".
2. I also believe that the word "hero" itself is an emotionally charged one, perhaps in some contexts a potential "trigger" word, which can be used, (or mis-used), more or less ethically, for political or propagandistic purposes.
3. What is the etymology (the origin, the history), of the word "hero" ? English language Wikipedia tells us http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero#Etymology. (BTW, the Portuguese language Wikipedia page touches nicely on the positive Values of "heroism", among which, yes, nobility, altruism, but also some of the negative implications of gratuitous (in the sense of unwarranted, unjustified, by evaluative extension empty, false), heroism, where individuals are primarily motivated by negative stuff, even as performing acts in a MANNER which could be also described as "heroic", negative motivations, such as vanity, pride, greed, hatred, & sometimes, I add here, maybe even fear in some limit cases. http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her%C3%B3i. Thank you, Google-translate ! 2nd BTW: there is NO Icelandic Wikipedia page on "hero" or "heroism" it seems ! Sometimes, the Icelandic pages seem to have more etymology than othe other Scandinavian languages pages.)
The free Online Etymology Dictionary goes a further step in clarifying the historical evolotion of the MEANING of the word "hero", see nr. 1 here: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=hero
4. Whenever faced¨with "conspiracy" theorists, unethical political activists, especially on-line, since so much info is vehiculated these days on-line that is IS indeed difficult to separate wheat from chaff, and KNOW who and what to trust, when seeking for Credible information about anything, I typically tend to go back to the basics, and try to Clarify for myself the Essence of the vehiculated idea...usually by attempting to see if various words, especially these highly-emotionally charged "trigger" words are correctly used, within the context, and/or HOW are they used over there, including in the vicinity of what other words, (especially proper names of people or places or organizations, institutions, etc.), do we find those words.
Then it is easier for myself to literally protect myself, including my own brain, (if it needs protecting, as it is constantly bombarded anyways on a daily basis by TV & Internet stimuli, as most of our modern brains are anyways...and maybe this accesibility of information is not such a bad thing after all, but only IF we knew how to MANAGE it better for ourselves...ideally, as all other "good, pleasurable but kinda' "naughty" stuff", IN MODERATION !)... so back to Protecting my brain from being invaded by gross unethical "propaganda", or outright inaccurate, plain ignorant info, (the latter being, IMHO, actually realistically more frequent than the former).
5. enough with the boring stuff now ! Does anyone remember the movie "Mr. Dustin Lee Hoffmann, Mrs. Virginia Elizabeth "Geena" Davis (Jarrahy), and Mr. Andrés Arturo García Menéndez aka Andy Garcia ?!
6. Please do NOT interpret my light-heartedness this AM, (going off on a tangent about movies this morning !), nor my prior exhortation against "heroism" as in any way derogatory or, G-d forbid, offensive towards the people who do hold some real positive heroes that they really like to continue to name as such close to their heart. (In my prior post I had mostly in mind the very real-life RISKS of heroism as a MANNER of action, and also touching on the gratuitous unwarranted kind of it, but I didn't explain it as fully as I attempted to do now, in this subsequent post, in order to avoid any misunderstandings or hurt feelings.)
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